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      10-02-2011, 12:58 PM   #54
stylinexpat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochdale Pioneers View Post
The push for the UN declaration was a cry for help. There is no negotiation because whilst the UN, the Palestinians and almost the rest of the world recognise both Israel and Palestine in the pre-67 borders, Israel and the US do not.

Regardless of which side you support (and for so many of us its emphatically BOTH) there are some truths which are both self-evident and stridently ignored.

1. Israel's security policies do not bring Israel security. The only way the current plan could bring Israel security within whatever border it chooses to recognise would be to either subjugate the arab (because the hardline zionists refuse to recognise any such thing as a "Palestinian" or exterminate every one of them.

A change in strategy is needed to achieve the objective, but every time there is a Palestinian rocket attack they go even harder against the Palestinians which results in another rocker attack so they go even harder against the Palestinians which results in another rocket attack.

2. Israel's strength is its weakness. It has enough conventional weapons to defeat any of its neighbours in a war. It has the nuclear weapons required to turn Iran to molten glass (which is why the "threat" of an Iranian bomb is no such thing - they cannot use it even if they had one and wanted to as Israel would utterly destroy them and with it their dreams of being the dominant islamic force in the region).

Yet for all this strength it cannot militarily defeat an ideal - that the occupied want not to be occupied. "Accidentally shoot" a youth throwing stones at soldiers armed with M16s and his brother will replace him. Kill the father and the son will join in. The only route to security is peace, and you can't have peace whilst they continue to steal land from the Palestinian as ruthlessly as the USA did from its indigenous nations.

3. Abbas is the person they need to negotiate with. Sure he's not perfect, nor is the PA, but the lie that keeps being put about is that the PA refuse to recognise Israel. The quotes demonstrating this to be a lie are on record and were posted earlier, yet it keeps being asserted. And yes, Hamas is more hard line. But is a bit player in the bigger picture. IRA hard liners refused to accept any UK involvement on the island of Ireland. Yet the majority cut a deal anyway, brought prosperity and all but a tiny minority have now come round, pariahs amongst their own people.

So there can be peace, but its up to Israel if it wants it. Not up to the Palestinians, only Israel can make the required moves to pull it off. The only conclusion I can draw is that Israel is summarily uninterested in peace.....

Check out this article and look at the hypocrisy..
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...ion=middleeast

Basically if the Palestinians ask the Israelis to stop settlements is seen as a pre-condition and Israel says it does not accept pre-conditions Palestine though must stop rockets from being launched into Israel and this of course is not a pre-condition Why is it that one side can continue to or is allowed to continue with something to aggravate the Palestinians by stealing land while the Palestinians are not allowed to aggravate the Israelis by fighting back Are people really that dense these days or just that thick skinned

To be fair and neutrally fair both sides should stop both actions which are considered provocative to one another which in this case is rocket attacks by the Palestinians and further theft of land which is referred to as settlements by Israelis.

If we want peace with this gopher in our backyard we must not attack any of his settlements in our backyard but mean while we must allow him to continue making new settlements in our backyard.

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