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      10-17-2011, 01:02 PM   #77

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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
It is well established that there is an over-abundance of hate and bigotry on both sides. Neither side has clean hands.

It would be bigotry for anyone to claim any one side has had completely clean hands.
It would be bigotry for anyone to claim any one side has been the only ones who were bigoted and hateful.

So now here we are. We've got two parties who do not have clean hands, who both have to live next to each other. Neither side can rightfully say the other side should not have a Nation because the other side doesn't have clean hands, when neither side has clean hands.

Now it is time to focus on creating two nations for two peoples. Once that is done, and only after this is done can there be an honest effort towards Truth and Reconciliation. Reconciling centuries of historic injustices cannot be a pre-condition to peace. However, a Just and Fair resolution to the current conflict CAN lead to an honest reconciliation some time in the future.

So I'm back to where I was yesterday. I still don't know what the point is of what you two are arguing about. You can both beat each other up about how neither side has had clean hands until the cows come home, and you will both be right. The only honest and productive debate is how and when we can get to the point where there are two states for two peoples. Only once that has been achieved can there be a chance at reconciling for all the dirty hands.

Now, do either one of you believe that one side or the other doesn't deserve a State due to their unclean hands?

Or do both of you agree that both sides must have a State, even though (like every single nation in the world) they both have a history that includes bigotry and hate?
the problem with this is that every time an offer is made to the palestinians it is declined and they start to blow up buses. Israel has made so many concessions to the palestinians and all they have to show for it is more dead israelis. a 2 state solution is ideal in theory, the only problem is that only one side here really wants peace, the other wants the opposing side to be completely wiped off the face of the earth.