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      02-08-2012, 11:27 PM   #38
turb0mik3's Avatar

Drives: E90 335i Racecar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

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2010 BMW 335i  [4.45]
Originally Posted by Q4P View Post
excellent results... that should be a monster, is there any way to fine tune or retune to lose 100 or so lb-ft of TQ? I think 500 HP and 400 LB-FT of TQ would be perfect... I only say this due to traction issues.

Originally Posted by Mr_PharmD View Post
Only way is to slowly introduce the boost at a certain rpm and then make it come quicker at later rpm (like a boost controller) but then ull get lag and make less whp n tq by the time u hit red line. Remember HP doesnt win races.. tq wins races. Its all about the driver and how much of a lead foot he has to deal with traction.
Originally Posted by Q4P View Post
That's enough for me to know to not take you seriously.

The gentlemen who said that was also wrong (enzo ferrari).
Originally Posted by myotherbaby View Post
I think horsepower has still a lot to do with winning races. If you are talking about light to light or 1/4 mile then yes but if you are talking about 80-150+, horsepower is where it's at.
Originally Posted by Mr_PharmD View Post
Think what u want but tq is still more important.

Say u have 2 Civics where one is SC and other is Turbo...both making 500whp but who would win? The civic with Turbo due to tq.
Originally Posted by Q4P View Post
lol... bcuz a supercharger doesn't make TQ...?

Please don't respond to me.
Originally Posted by Mr_PharmD View Post
Now ure being stupid and proving tq is more important.
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
I think you guys are arguing semantics. Acceleration is proportional to torque at the wheels, and it can be calculated by area under the torque curve. HP is a calculation from torque and speed.

The car with the greater area under the torque curve will win. Generic comparisons of "500HP versus 500lb-ft" are meaningless without comparing RPM - where the engine makes the torque, and how flat the torque curve is.

So for the generalized 500HP with turbo or supercharger, we have to assume a few things: turbo makes full boost long before rev limit, where supercharger typically makes full boost at rev limit (and significantly less boost below the rev limit if it's a centrifugal blower). The extra mid-range boost from the load-based turbo increases torque output, and should have the larger area under the curve.

At the BMW CCA Oktoberfest club race at Barber Motorsports Park in Birmingham, AL, a 135i in H-Prepared would literally stomp all over higher HP mod-class cars exiting the turns due to its massive torque over the naturally aspirated competition. Once the NA cars were in the higher revs where they finally made some torque, they were able to stay the same speed as the 135. If the drag race were to continue down a runway (they were limited to the short straights at Barber), the higher HP cars would start to reel in the 135 due to drag. Higher HP is desired once aerodynamic drag comes into play.

Originally Posted by Mr_PharmD View Post if u can keep the tq high and leveled until redline u will win the race.

Funny stuff... You guys aren't really talking about the tradeoff. There aren't many, if at all, engines with high redlines and tons of torque. For straight line racing a turbo is obviously better but going around a track N/A (or turbos that act NA are better) because you never dip below 4k rpm anyways.

I will admit doing all of SOW in 3rd and 4th gear was pretty fun, haha. As the dude said above, it all depends on the power curve.

BTW I would rather have some KW Comp 3 ways than 700whp, haha.

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