View Single Post
      07-02-2012, 07:10 AM   #598
GoingTooFast
Banned
 
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

Posts: 1,247
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I think we all know that the GT86 is a good car but lacks straight line performance, becuase the car still does not weigh 600 kg but 1200 kg. The remedy is + 50-100 PS more power. How to get that ? Two solutions:
-forced induction, either supercharger or turbocharger, but we know the downsides of them which are to different extent added wieght and less responsive throttle
- larger capacity and higher revvs but with downside that it will be a worse daily driver


All in all, eventhough the GT86 is one of the best sportscar, from a drivers perspective, better is possible. But there is only one way to do better : only two seats (not 2+2) and NA H6. In other words Supra V.


I do not care much about 2+2 seat configuration of the GT86/BRZ because my aim was and still is to have this car as track car only. As a daily driver I'd prefere a Cayman S (the next generation), but its twice the price of one of the twins. I have to wait.

Levi, I'm sorry to say it but I think you are missing the point. The BMW E30 M3 was a 2+2 seat and it wasn't specially powerful in the US trim, at 192 hp (6750 rpm) with catalytic converter (83.5 hp /litre), for a 2735 lbs (1240 kg) car and yet it was the car that gave BMW's reputation for great everyday use vehicle dynamics, NOT some two-seater sports coupe . As Chris Harris has so well put it:

Quote:
M cars are not about engines, they are about chassis.

Of course that having a 2.3L displacement engine the E30 M3 had higher max. torque, 170 lb-ft (230 Nm @ 4750 rpm), further complemented by the small 205/55-15 tires. However, max. torque was available over a much narrower rpm band and the US overdrive gearbox had taller gear ratios (except 1st and 2nd) for the same final drive ratio when compared to the Toyobaru:




.............. Toyobaru................ E30 M3 (US model)
1st............ 3.63:1................... 3.83:1..............
2nd............ 2.19:1................... 2.20:1.............
3rd............ 1.54:1................... 1.40:1..............
4th............ 1.21:1................... 1.00:1..............
5th............ 1.00:1................... 0.81:1..............
6th............ 0.77:1..........................................
Final drive... 4.10:1................... 4.10:1..............


The E30 M3 in standard trim had a maximum permissible continuous engine speed of 6900rpm (7000 rpm redline) and boasted 7.6s in 0-62 mph (not the 0-60 mph time as it is wrongly stated in the picture) and a top speed of 230 km/h or 143 mph with catalytic converter (235 km/h or 146 mph without a catalyst). Even the dimensions are basically the same for the Toyobaru and the E30 M3 as far as weight, weight distribution front/rear, wheelbase and overall lenght go:







The S14 engine of the E30 M3 albeit canted over 30 degrees to the right lowering the center of gravity and balancing out the weight of the driver still had a significant 30 inch height when measured on a vertical axis and weighted 380 lbs (172 kg) fully dressed 'wet'. To give you a better idea of the meaning of that the S2000's F20C engine is a much more compact unit weighting only 326 lbs (148 kg) fully dressed and its height is 25 inch on the vertical axis with the engine canted over to the right by 15 degrees only:






Also, it's not so much a question of power but torque. To give you an example, my 1M could well had a 5000 rpm redline and only 300 hp because that's where the BIG torque, hence max. acceleration, is and I don't feel the need to rev it higher.


As you can see... the Toyobaru really is a cornerstone:




Last edited by GoingTooFast; 07-04-2012 at 08:19 PM.
GoingTooFast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote