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      07-18-2012, 04:31 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
Yes you may have spent time on the 'Ring, but have you been on other modern tracks? Like I said I've been on the 'Ring, Laguna Seca, Sears Point, and even Road America. So I have scope of what a MODERN race track is like.

Tracks can be interesting and captivating without being dangerous, that's my point. Laguna Seca is one of the most "fascinating" places to drive, I would also consider Road America equally as fascinating, but guess what? They have run off lanes, gravel traps, well designed bends, and many modern safety measures that keep people from becoming fatalities. That's why I implore you to drive on other race tracks to see what a modern track is like. Get experience on a modern track, then come back here and talk about the 'Ring and its safety. It's night and day. They could have spent some of that "revamp" money into modernizing the 'Ring, instead of building sideshow attractions.

Your assumption that a track is captivating because of the danger is horse shit, and comparing less dangerous tracks like Laguna Seca to "sitting on the couch" is laughable, and certainly shows you haven't been on any of them. I'd love to see what kind of lap times you would turn in at Laguna Seca, that you would compare it to sitting on a couch.

I was there in 2002 and 2007. Are you saying that in the past 4.5 years, the track has modernized itself to become more safe? I highly doubt that. Rennlist members who go to the ring multiple times a year have the same complaints I have, so I think you would be dishonest to claim that safety has improved greatly since 2007.

That's my point. If they would have solved the problems back before major orgs started leaving, they may not have had to take these enormous loans to build pointless sideshows.

Regardless, this conversation is becoming moot quickly, there is very little chance the 'Ring gets out of insolvency. It almost a certainty that it will be closed down.
I can see some of your point Media, but one thing you also have to see is if the track is so dangerous as you say it is, then why so many sport auto manufacturers go and test their cars at Nurburgring? I have been on Hockenheim and Sachsenring (modern tracks that host DTM and Hockenhem hosts F1 this year) and neither of these tracks compare to what the 'Ring offers in terms of skill demand and concentration.

Since I have been here in Germany (2005) I have ran the 'ring several times and have had my share of scary moments there. Even with that I still think that the Nordschleife is safe. What doesn't make it safe and it is the same case for any racetrack anywhere in the world, is the other person on the track with you. Most if not all the fatalities at the 'ring since I have been here have ocurred due to either operator error (going too fast for someone's ability) or mechanical failure (fluid spills). That happens at any track.

Most drive it because of the sheer exhillaration but I agree with Lux on that one. But with those dangers comes a choice, either you get on....or you don't. As simple as that. 85-90% of those who get on understand the rules of the road and respect those rules. You don't get that type of adrenaline rush at any other track here, and I tell you that from experience.

Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
I'm not comparing Laguna Seca, Sears Point, or Road America/Atlanta to the 'Ring in nostalgia and history factor. I'm comparing them in terms of safety, and entertainment. If you've been on a modern race course, the 'Ring seems severely antiquated when it comes to safety. I'm not sure how anyone who has been on a modern track can deny that.
Safety at the ring has increased dramatically since I have been here, but when you have administrators that do not understand what a motorsports venue is or how it should be ran, the danger becomes bigger.

If you are ever out here let me know. I'll gladly meet you there and even let you take my car around or you can roll shotgun with me.

At the end of the day, everyone has their perspectives as to how they feel about something.
Quote from Ezeedee regarding car mods:
"you're only done when you sell the car "