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      11-28-2012, 08:15 AM   #101
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Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008

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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
+1 Good point Jake. Funny how some people have such a different opinion when the obvious is right in front of them.

This is a quote from

"For large turbo and nitrous customers we suggest the AP to allow loading of our custom pro tuned fueling map which transfers tuning and ignition advance tuning from the JB4 over to the flash side, adds VANOS and additional tuning features, and allows the JB4 to focus on what it does best for large turbos, boost control, meth integration, in dash features, and safety features."

So correct me if I'm wrong, the BS Pro Tune fueling map transfers the tuning to include ignition advance (which the JB4 actually doesn't do that I'm aware of) over to the flash side. Then the JB4 can focus on what it does best... Boost control, meth integration, and gauge hijacking which I think that's all it does anyway right? I'm still not clear as to what safety features the JB4 has? Can someone elaborate on that?

Not trying to start a war over this, just find it comical that more people haven't questioned this solution. Buy the JB4 because it's the best tune for the money, BUT if you really want to make a lot of power, you also have to by a COBB AP to flash your DME to effectively make our tune work.

I think at this point I would have sold my JB4 and bought the COBB as suggested.
Ignoring the trollish elements of your post and just answering the fundamental question why have a piggyback in the first place. The answer is simple. The piggyback can do a lot of things the flash tuning alone can't do.

A few simple examples:

1) Absolute boost targeting (vs. load targeting offered by flash tunes), with no boost mapping constraints. This includes gear dependent boost control, dynamic target control found in auto learning and progressive methanol maps, etc.

2) More robust adaptive wastegate duty cycle routines beyond what you can map in the DME.

3) Progressive methanol mapping and integration including in dash flow readings.

4) Over boost, run lean, temperature protection, and knock detection safety systems that are more robust and configurable than what the DME alone offers.

5) On the fly tuning adjustments (to boost, timing, and air/fuel) required for a functional auto tuning or integrated methanol system. Including taking in external inputs like a methanol flow sensor, flex fuel sensor, etc, and then adjusting tuning as a function of those inputs.

6) Extensive addl features at least on the JB4 side. 2STEP, NLS, user adjustable in dash gauges, shift light, water pump remap, TPMS suppression, code management, etc, etc, covered in the wheel control sheet below.

Now what flash tuning does really well is directly map lambda targets to injector pulse widths so at some point > 450whp you wind up needing to flash to address those issues. While you are flashing anyway BMS makes several other table changes to optimize the flash tuning for higher performance allowed by big E85 mixtures. Changes to the advance maps, VANOS changes, etc. Sure the JB4 G5 has CPS and extra digital I/O one could use to make those same timing / VANOS changes but since you are flashing anyway for the fueling it makes more sense / works better to have those changes done on the DME side.

For JB4 owners the device itself is only $479 new so it's sort of a no brainer to keep it around. Especially considering you get a tuner writing both the flash and JB4 maps for you to go along with it. That alone is probably worth hundreds.... Now in your case I know the PROcede is more limited in its feature set so if you don't care about the boost control, meth control, and in dash stuff it offers and the tuner does not give you support then it might not make sense for you to run it along with a flash. That is a judgement call you will need to make. But you've probably spent thousands of dollars in mods already so why not keep your PROcede around to have the best of both worlds?