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      01-23-2013, 03:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by incantana View Post
that may be the case. but these stats are factual. Which ideas are outdated? Are you referring to all the ideas? or just social ideas? or are you also referring to economics? If its the social ideas you are referring to, im going to assume that you're mainly referring to abortion and gay marriage as the main topics. On both of these issues prior to the election, Obama was against Gay marriage and also against late term abortion yet he was elected as a senator and then again in 2008. He has obviously since "evolved" on the issues as has been well covered by the media. I think its fair to say that, while many may disagree with tranditional stances on gar marriage and abortion, it wasnt the downfall of republicans in the election.

so did 51% of America who voted for Obama feel that these numbers as mentioned in your quote do not matter? Did they feel that, yes, this is bad, but the alternative would lead to even worse numbers? Because as these numbers indicate, the economy is not better, its not getting better. unemployment is unchanged since 2008. Now I know that many will say it would have been worse had Obama not been elected but thats just as assertion that is impossible to verify. Whats your take on this?

Id venture to say that America is undergoing a fundamental change. I think we are moving towards a much more liberal european America. I think that the collective has now become more important than the individual and the meaning of "fair" has completely changed to "equal outcome" rather than "equal opportunity." You're right I believe. There are more takers than makers now. There are more people asking what their country can give them rather than what they can do for their country. Success and wealth are now dirty words.
Actually the economy is better. We're not all the way there yet, but we are getting there, and no thanks to Republicans obstructing all the way. You guys are still fighting old battles. At some point you have to wake up and face it, the country is changing. Actually, no, the country HAS changed.

When has the meaning of "fair" ever really meant fair for everyone? And when has there ever really been equal opportunity for everyone? You seem to have a false nastalgia for a better time in this country that really never was. Don't forget, Jim Crow segregation was not that long ago at all. That wasn't so wonderful for a lot of folks in this country.

So cheer up. If your prediction is right we have a good 25 years before we become France or Germany. So live it up now and enjoy your life. You're one of the lucky ones. You have a good job and a BMW. Your future is bright. And when we do become France or Germany will that really be so bad? Just think, you won't have fly 8 hours to visit the Eiffle tower and you won't have to pay that high premium for your Bimmer!

By the way, which one are you... a maker or a taker?