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      01-23-2013, 10:08 PM   #922

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Nope, the S2000 was great, I've driven SP1's and 2's both on the street and track.

The simple fact that the BRZ is within six seconds of the S2k is very impressive given the tires are a serious handicap compared to even the S02's on the Honda, given that they're nearly identical in weight and torque, with the S2k having a higher rev range and associated hp advantage.
Red Bread,

You must compare the Potenza's RE050A mounted on the Toyobaru (not the Prius rubber) to the Potenza's S-02 of the original S2000. With that in mind one can not say, in all seriousness, that a Toyobaru so equipped is handicapped by the tires when compared to the S2000.

Since you've driven several S2000's maybe you can tell us what tire did you find to be the better choice for the dry track, the S-02 or the RE050?

Also, the main reason why the Toyobaru managed to achieve such a close Nurburgring lap time to the S2000, despite the lower rev range and hp disadvantage, has all to do with its utterly brilliant balance whereas the S2000 certainly isn't an easy car to drive on the limit.

Additionally, the S2000 is a VERY good example of what I mean when I'm asking NOT for more power but for increased torque from the Toyobaru's engine.

In effect, as you well know being familiar with the AP1 and AP2 versions of the S2000, the latter went from a 2.0L engine with 240 hp (179 kW; 243 PS) @ 8300 rpm to a 2.2L engine, slightly less power, 237 hp (177 kW; 240 PS) @ 7800 rpm, BUT with more torque and appearing at a lower rpm range than the Toyobaru's equivalent figure of the S2000 earlier version: from 153 lbft (207 Nm) @ 7500 rpm to 162 lbft (220 Nm) @ 6800 rpm (US) or better still 163 lbft (221 Nm) @ 6500-7500 rpm (JP). That's all that is needed - MORE TORQUE!!!

Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I get the garbage tires being fun in casual driving, and I get that it's easy to remedy this with better tires for those of us that seek track time and higher limits, clearly the chassis is capable of taking advantage of more grip.

I daily drove and tracked a Miata for years, and my last car was an M Coupe with the silly, understeering staggered setup, very similar to what Boxsters wore. Many track rats switch to square setups and I'd likely keep the BRZ that way.

I've seriously considered buying one, I certainly haven't ruled it out (current dealer pricing makes them less desirable), but I'd be very tempted to jack with the power of a stock one, so waiting (semi patiently) for an STI version doesn't hurt me one bit. I'm not voicing displeasure at the current state of the BRZ/86/FRS, only stating that the chassis is clearly capable of more and that offering two versions hurts no one, especially the bottom line.

I don't want a supercharger, at least a non intercooled one like TRD is likely to offer. I live somewhere that it gets hot and track time with an engine without adequate cooling isn't fun.

If I were looking for a 100% street driven, amusing car, the stock BRZ fits that bill very well, but for a car that would be tracked, I'd like the power to push the chassis a little closer to it's limits and not be flat footing the thing around all day long. We haven't talked about frequent discussions of the weak brakes, but that's another area that STI may help, although the Brembo's on the STI Imprezas haven't been too stellar.

I've got the right solution for your track toy (no more power needed)... a weight loss of 155 kg, from around 1275 kg to 1120 kg :

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 01-23-2013 at 10:21 PM.