Thread: NYS Gun Laws
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      01-30-2013, 12:48 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
True enough, I should have added a 4th bullet point (no pun intended).

Of course, it must be pointed out that plenty of weapons and drugs are smuggled into Canada too (probably a big demand going north considering the more restrictive laws)

Despite that, the fact remains the body count is far less. Just because there is a leak at the perimieter doesnt mean it's not effective to limit supply into general circulation via other, initially legal, means.
I'm just saying that there is no data that supports your theory on where criminals get there weapons. However, even if your theory is correct, the starting point which doesn't infringe on law abiding citizens rights would be to tighten up the laws connecting the owners to the crime committed with their loaned or lost guns, not targeting the rifles of law abiding citizens.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post

Well, I havent heard any logical justification for the rifle-oriented approach to restrictions, when handguns do harm more. Obviously I'm not privy to gov discussions behind closed doors.

I'm familiar with the theory that such a focus is part of the conspiracy to keep Joe Citizen less able to defend himself. However, the same type of people asserting that, are also quick to point out the Giffords shooting, Virginia Tech, and the Newtown shooting, were all done with handguns, not rifles. If I wanted to convince others that by taking my rifle, they gov is leaving me weaker than if they took my handgun, I wouldnt be pointing out how 1 person can effectively use handguns to kill dozens of people in a short time...

A logical explanation that I HAVE heard for the magazine restriction (independantly of whether it's a rifle or hand gun mag), is that in the Giffords shooting, he used a Glock 19 with a 30-round mag. Including 1 in the chamber, he got off 31 shots, and it was when he fumbled while ejecting the mag and trying to reload that he was tackled and stopped. These 31 rounds hit 19, killing 6. The supposition is that had he been limited to a 7 round mag, then he would have hit 7 max, not 19, and the fatality count could have been less. No guarantee of that of course, those 7 shots could have killed 7 instead of 6, and certainly there's no guarantee that he still would have fumbled the switch of a smaller, lighter mag as badly, creating an oppotunity to be tackled. But still, the theory is not totally devoid of logic, at least in that instance.
The argument that handguns can do the same damage as rifles is to point out that many things are capable of killing dozens in a short period of time. Imagine if the Aurora punk didn't want to be like his video game character and decided to really kill people. He could have used a hand full of simple bike locks to secure the theater doors and set the place on fire. Heck, in an accident in Brazil about 150 died in a club that caught fire. There are very efficient ways to kill people without the use of firearms.

The magazine argument does have logic at it's core. Although, crazy won't let a 7 round mag get in the way. Especially since millions upon millions of high capacity mags will be available via a criminal black market.

For arguments sake say Johnny goes out and buys a new hand gun that comes with a 7 round mag. He goes to the range and gets tired of reloading and purchases 4 more 7 round mags so he can preload them before going to the range. Now he's got 5 mags preloaded with 35 rounds of ammo. Every time he goes to the range he not only is honing his shooting skill but he is inadvertently or purposely gaining muscle memory and skill in changing mags. If this person has evil plans, he may be actually practicing mag changes. One could argue that a shooter's problem with changing that 30 round mag is because when he went shooting at the range he wasn't doing any mag changes. He loaded up a 30 round mag and shot it. Then he ejected the mag to reload the mag, not change from an empty to a full one.

I know many people with hand guns with 15 round mags and several people with hand guns with only 7-8 rounds. Those with 15 round mags typically own only 1, some times 2 if the pistol came with 2. Those with 7-8 round mags typically own multiple mags. I personally only load about 10 rounds per mag so i have to change mags more frequently as practice.

I just don't believe the restriction of magazines will make a difference. Criminals (those responsible for the majority of gun homicides) will continue to break the law and use high capacity mags. Those hell bent on taking people with them when they decide to commit suicide will practice mag changes to spite the system and people that have oppressed and ignored them.

Just my opinion of course.
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"