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      08-31-2008, 10:25 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by d_crome View Post
Ahhhh - so he's the guy that made the new series of BMW's UGLIER than the last? Ah - makes sense now, no wonder my car looks like a Hyundai ripoff and why I had such a hard time of convincing my heart to go with my head over an E46 M3 - the chassis and engine were what won me over - the design did not.

I do believe that this quote from Top Gear (Also located in the link so kindly provided by the poster) says it all in regards to this designer:

"This guy's had a lot of stick, this designer, and I think rightly so, because everyone of his cars, they're horrible, they really are, and they should fire this guy,"

For DESIGN notes (i.e. AESTHETICS) please look at Audi...they surely have it right.

And also note - Engineering is more than designing the best without constraints - that's a scientist involved in R&D, or a development team with an F1 team. An ENGINEER designs WITHIN constraints, be that material or COST etc. If Japanese/European designers (not strictly prestige European, I'm talking lower end, like Fiat, Renault, Ford UK, Opel et al) can produce cars that perform better for less $ then the US can as well.

Right now the US is behind the 8 ball. They got lazy and figured consumers would buy SUV's till the cows came home. Workmanship was shoddy because the US manufacturer anticipated that most here would want a new vehicle before the old vehicle broke down. Hence the life span of a generic US vehicle and it's corresponding workmanship could be lax as most would simply have upgraded anyway.

I'm not saying the US can't EVER do a good job - not at all - they can. But their current hit or miss ratio is far off the curve. The US engineers will HAVE to change and improve, else in 5 years GM will be no more. Capitalism is a great thing when it actually works.

My money says they will - I eagerly wait to see the Chevy Volt and other new ideas that the SUV had held down for so long.

Most people here also chose to really miss my point - the DESIGNERS here (the guys that are responsible for creating arguably THE most ugly cars in the world - take a look at the ENTIRE PONTIAC line and tell me that ONE remotely is appealing). I've had friends here from overseas make me PULL OVER so they can take pictures of Pontiac Azteks or other vehicles because THEY ARE SO F'N UGLY.

Now that's my point - US Design - AT THIS POINT IN TIME - is bad. Engineering is getting better.

And seriously - the US work hours are amongst the highest in the world. 2 weeks vacation, 1 week sick leave, 7 public holidays - and you think that's lax?? I'd hate to work in your sweat shop buddy. OTHER countries work LESS and actually are more productive on a man-hr basis.

The point of the thread - if BMW construct 3 series here - would you buy it?

YES - so long as the manufacturing process was maintained to BMW current levels.

If the 3 series was DESIGN and ENGINEERED here - would I buy it?

NO. Simple answer really. Wouldn't consider a US designed vehicle for another decade.
You still bought one right?

Styling is subjective. I personally feel now that all of the cars have been "bangled" the entire lineup makes good sense and have moved the game along. It's easy to keep doing the same thing. It takes balls to do something different.

Not to mention the Germans running the company could have stopped him at any point but, they apparently trusted him enough to let him go.

Also, it's funny how people can overlook Germans doing such a bang up job with these cars lately. Fuel pumps failing left and right, designed and manufactured by Bosch, apparently not tested very well by BMW. Oil coolers left off the certain cars tarnishing the rep by going into limp mode in magazine comparo's, waste gates rattling like crazy (I know they are Mitsu turbos but, again does BMW not test this stuff before release) and my personal pet peeve paint quality that is pretty much inexcusable for a car at this price point.