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      08-07-2009, 01:53 PM   #68
The Cthulhu

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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
You keep going on and on and on and on about track cars but THEY WEREN'T ON A TRACK!!! I'm taking offense to the fact that you're totally ignoring the situation at hand so you can go off on some tangent in an attempt to demonstrate how smart you are. I never said a 135i was a race car. NEVER. So you can stop trying to suggest I did.

What I said was that a Lotus isn't in the same class as an Atom, and it isn't. PERIOD. You're not required to wear a helmet to drive it, or climb through a window to get into it. It's considerably slower in every measure, and the power to weight ration on the Atom is about double the Lotus. The Atom outruns some of the worlds most exotic vehicles that cost upwards of $1 Million, and the Lotus can be challenged by dozens of road going vehicles.

What I also said was that a tuned 135i COULD outrun a Lotus on the highway, and that hasn't been disproven either. The power to weigh ratio is close enough that it isn't impossible, or even unlikely. I've also done it personally several times, but that's another story altogether.

You say I'm the one who likes to argue, when you're the one going off on tangents that have nothing to do with the subject at hand, which is a race down the highway. All you have to do to end this argument is stop responding, because you're obviously not capable of taking my points and addressing them directly to prove otherwise.
The situation at hand is that the op didn't know what type of car he saw, so he posted a picture. It was an Atom, did I ignore that? The other situation was that he allegedly killed it, I think I called BS on that when I brought up power to weight for the first time in this thread. Sorry if I went too far for your tastes in my examples. I guess we should just look up 1/4 miles times and agree that it's BS and talk about nothing else. Maybe we should just talk about these two cars driving straight on the highway some more...

I believe the Lotus is in the same class as an Atom because it is a completely sparse track oriented car, but that it is nowhere near as fast. I'm not oblivious to the fact that it is not an open wheeled racer and weighs twice as much. I used it as an example of a car that doesn't have much raw power, but can keep up with a Ferrari F40 on some tracks (essentially what you said about the Atom beating out supercars). I only mentioned the Lotus because it's an excellent example of a low horsepower car that outperforms many higher horsepower cars that weigh more. As is the Atom. There is no performance comparison between an Atom and a Lotus, but they share the theme of severe weight reduction in favor of muscle.

Not even talking about track:
I said that you can't compare a tuned car to a stock car, and stock for stock, I don't think there's a chance in hell a 135i could outrun a Lotus on the highway, unless it was over 140 mph. Stock against tuned, it's a toss up, the 135i should win. Tuned against tuned, it's the Lotus again. And it does it with a 4 and a lot less power... I think that's very impressive. Maybe you don't share my enthusiasm.

I don't consider top speed and acceleration to be tangents, even if it applies more to the Lotus than the Atom. One can talk about power to weight until he's blue in the face and still lose a race because the horsepower isn't there to achieve top speed, and it's because of air resistance. It applies to the Atom because it makes far less horsepower (it isn't the 500 HP one in the pic) than a tuned 135i. It's also pretty turbulent. The top speed is lower than the 135i. It's not much of an issue because it screams to top speed so quickly...

To reiterate, The 135i DOES have a higher top speed than an Atom. And it's extremely hard to minimize drag and frontal area enough to get out of needing loads of horsepower to hit very high speeds. I thought it was pretty cool that you can just play around with an equation to figure out minimum horsepower needed to hit a top speed... Obviously not appreciated.

You think I'm trying to demonstrate how smart I am (I'm not), but I'm just talking about car stuff. Get over yourself. This isn't a penis contest, we all have the same car.

I've addressed your points before, and I'm positive that I didn't miss a single one in this post.