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      06-21-2012, 08:25 AM   #59
Clifton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No. Actually what happened is, as in typical Clifton fashion, you take people's posts and add words to them, or disassociate connected ideas presented in them, then go on to try and refute what (actually was not) said. You've done this several times in this thread with my posts. So for the record I never wrote nor implied the following:

GM Fiero "pioneered" a self-supporting monocoque
GM Fiero "pioneered" a car with plastic body panels
GM Fiero "pioneered" a two seat mid-engine sports car

But you pointed to a bunch of cars, several being either engineering display models (GM's Plexiglas car), or engineering test beds (Ford's soybean car), race cars (the Porsche), or fiberglass monocoque bodied (the Lotus), etc. None of these cars counter my point.

I did say the GM Fiero pioneered a monocoque "frame" (there's a difference between monocoque frames and monocoque-body cars) with bolt-on non-structural plastic body panels. None of the cars you've pointed to are of that specific design; the BMW Z1 is however. Which is what my point has always been; that between the Z1 and Fiero, GM pioneered the concept almost 8 years before BMW and put it into production 5 years before BMW.

And also just for the record, I did not manipulate any of the Fiero data as you claim, I copied it directly from the fellow's website (go and check).

Have fun. Cheers. I'll stop all the banter, so our fellow Fourm Members can start enjoying the Forum again. Hope you can too.
What I enjoy is that with every post that I prove wrong, you respond with a new "spin" on your original argument. First it's a "self-suporting" monocoque today it is a monocoque "frame". The uncomfortable moment with a rolling argument, like yours, is that you eventually trip over your own words. Today you did just that:

Orginal argument:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The construction design of a "self-supporting monocoque" with plastic body panels had already been pioneered by General Motors
Today:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
So for the record I never wrote nor implied the following:
GM Fiero "pioneered" a self-supporting monocoque
GM Fiero "pioneered" a car with plastic body panels
Bad news for you on your new argument ("monocoque frame"), that's wrong too. Look to my previous post and you will find what you need there. Also, I'd like to help you and get you pointed in the right direction for Fiero data. Start with Pontiac Fiero Wiki - there you will find they boast about the Fiero, but the only "first" claim they give is that turd was the "first" mass-produced mid-engine, by a US manufacture.

Today's new claim:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'll stop all the banter, so our fellow Fourm Members can start enjoying the Forum again. Hope you can too.
Days ago:You also made this claim several days ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'm done with responding to you; it really is a bore.
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Clifton


Last edited by Clifton; 06-21-2012 at 10:03 AM.. Reason: typo
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