[dtc100]

Originally Posted by micah_675

Here is the issue with your logic dtc100. These fans DONT actually add air, they add restriction, they are incapable with moving enough air to keep up with the demands of the engine. (plain and simple and engine is an AIR PUMP) The more air it moves the BETTER it preforms. That being said, to make it better the fan has to move MORE air than the engine can on its own. On top of that the fans are incapable of producing POSITIVE air pressure (what is known as boosting). Therefore, these do not do squat.

Are you trying to agree with me or disagree with me? What you just said was what I said, so you need to be clear if you are trying to disagree or rather agree before I can respond

Also do you understand how a turbo actually works?

I never pretended I was a turbo expert, in fact no expert in any or these, what is your point?

Exauhst gasses spin the turbine which is directly connected to another turbine that inducts air. That air induction is GREATER than the amount of air being drawn in by the engine. That is possible because the exauhst gasses (the gas being expelled by the engine) is propelling the turbine. Which means the more air being taken in means the more air being expelled. The greatest factor of all of this is because it brings in more than the engine needs, it creates PRESSURE. Pressure at the valves means the engines stroke does not determine how much air is inducted it flows into the void freely because inside the piston there is less pressure than outside. The only time the pistons do the major work of taking in air is when the car is started after that the natural cycle of the motor takes over.

Also maybe you should read this.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=919935

Maybe you should also read up on air density.... (which ironically is what a MAF measures....)

So what is your point? Are you trying to prove that more air pressure applied to an NA engine is of no help at all? If more air density is measured by the MAF, wouldn't the ECU match the air with more fuel so the engine will produce more power? Of course it is nothing compared to a turbo booster, but still a gain is a gain, whether it is worth the effort has everything to do with how much effort and cost are involved.

You see there are a lot of factors involved in a single issue. If one is only capable of zero in on a single factor, like Euro is doing, one will miss the issue.

He insists a person who spends $40 to do an air scoop mod must also do a $500 dyno test to prove to him the exact gain, else the mod is shit. That is an unreasonable demand.

A smaller mod or smaller gain requires a lesser proof, a more expensive mod and a more grand claim requires more grand proof. For a $40 mod, in my view the manufactrue's dyno claim, in combination with users' actuall data such as the lowered engine temp measured, the faster 0 to 60 time clocked after than before, should be sufficient to prove the value of that $40 mod.

On the other hand, a $900 ecu tune better has more dyno charts not only from the manufacture, but from the end users to convince others to get on board.

You can have all the detailed knowledge of how all those engine technologies work, it is of no use to you if you cannot also read the debate and determine what the arguments are all about. This is an NA forum, no one here is trying to argue against how your turbo works and why it works and why that electric charger does not work.

I am not saying you cannot discuss turbo technology, what I am asking is, whenever discussing the issues here, alway remember this is an NA forum, most of us (some do want a forced induction kit of course but they are the minority) are not interested in turbo technologies, rather how to improve our NA engines. Some of the mods have been proven silly such as the above electric charger, yet in fact even in the above link you provided, there is the example of how an electric charger can work for an NA engine, only that you need a much more expensive system to make it work.

The point again is, one needs to be able to consider all the factors involved in a particular mod to determine the cost v. the benefit, and what kind of proof is needed for what kind of mods.

A more expensive mod with a more gand claim must have more extensive and grand proof, a simple and inexpensive mod requires less proof.

If Euro can produce a dyno chart to prove that the air scoops cannot provide any gain at all regardless what speed the car is driving, then he has a point, short of that, for a $40 mod, the manufacture's dyno claim, the end users own data collected, and the improved 0 to 60 time, are sufficient proof.

While the above electric charger has been proven useless, as I had explained, and you also repeated what I had said, that is not to say one cannot build an electric charger to actually work for an NA engine, only that it will need much more energy supply with its own dedicated heavy duty battery pack, and more expensive charge unit, and provide only a short term boost of power, not some continuous boost.

But still the fact a more dedicated electric charger will work for an NA engine is proof that more air will boost an NA engine's power, just like a turbo charger will work for a turbo engine sytem, only in very different degrees and pattern.