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      08-11-2014, 08:31 AM   #24
misterS3
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Peter that's a comprehensive reply!

Alan has answered far more succinctly that i could. But will tackle a few points.

There is no anti-English sentiment from me. And no on i know is the same. We're so intertwined in terms of relationships nothing will change. The same way i have friends and family in Ireland I have most of my family in England. There may be some who 'hate the English' but the same is true the other way. And i doubt if you put those people together they'd actually not get on. So it's not what is driving the decision. If it was, it would very easy to counter for the No campaign. And i've seen nothing anti-English from any of the parties campaigning for Indy. SNP, Green, Labour for Indy etc. Maybe it's how it feels or is being reported to you.

The drivers are for a change from what is going on up here. A more social just and fair society. No one where the rich get richer and the not even poor go to foodbanks and struggle by. And as Alan points out that doesn't just apply in Scotland it's just that we elected a govt who put the Referendum on their manifesto and are delivering on that. And have the opportunity to choose a different path.

Pension & Aging population. Yes it is a drain hence we need to invest in creating jobs to pay more tax into the system (not austerity) to pay those pensions. State pensions as you know are paid almost in real-time (i think i read there is a year in the pot but not sure). SG has promised a triple-lock which i expect the UK Govt top copy so that pensions don't continue to be the worst in Europe and fall further and further behind inflation.

NHS - it's not privitised. But it's heading in that direction. Stereotypically for Sri Lankan family most of my family are doctors (i'm far too lazy). And all now work in the English NHS. And so i know from them first hand what is going on. The profitable parts are being sold off to private companies to run. GPs are being asked about charging for missed appointments/appointments (my sister and cousin).

Foodbanks. The SNP have put in £1.5m that i know of. But why should we raise taxes up here to pay for policies from Westminster? That makes no sense. We already paid for the Bedroom tax from our budget.And there are foodbanks all over England too. So again it's not particular to Scotland.

Currency Union - Balance of Payments. That's the reason why there will be one. Unless the unionist parties can sell you the £ being devalued by removing the Scottish Exports. That will increase interest rates and cost of imports.
Also we would remove our share of the bullion i guess (not totally up on this one - need to do more reading). And there is of course the fact that if we're not getting the assets why would Scotland take the debt which is another £5bn per year. Of course rUK could still say no. But that to me would be a case of cutting off nose to spite face. And Scotland could still use the pound.
The argument about not being truly independent in a CU would have to aimed at all the countires in the Euro first and foremost and those countries surely view themselves as independent.

Benefit Reform. Why not ask Sir Phillip Green, Vodafone etc for their fair share of the Corp Tax bill. Those 2 alone would make up for more than Benefit Fraud There are more people chasing benefits cheats than tax cheats, yet the revenues lost to corp tax is at least a factor of 16 and according to some a factor of 40. I'm not saying let the benefits cheats off scot free. But don't push people to committing suicide/death because they miss a meeting. Have some compassion. But then IDS has his fans.

Trident - it's less than 600 people directly affected. And Scotland would have it's own Defence Forces based there (i need to check as i'm not up on the White Paper). Again we pay more into Defence that we get back. The majority of Defence cuts have come in Scotland. So with our own Defence forces we will probably create jobs pound for pound (or groat for groat)


I've not seen one report that actuall says that Scotland get more than their fair share. Yeh you can twist it by saying we get more back than we put in, but that's because of borrowings. Forgive me if i copy and paste and explanation i gave a pal.

This is for 2012/13 which was the latest figures to hand when but true for 32 out of 33 years going back from today.

Scotland puts in £56bn of £566bn total tax revenue. That's 9.9%. And the Rest of UK puts in £510bn (that's 566-56)

The whole of the UK then borrows additional £122bn (that's why we're in £1.3tn debt at the moment)

The pot now stands at £688bn (that's £566bn tax revenues + £122Bn additional borrowing)

Scotland now get out of the pot £64Bn which is 9.3% of the total pot of £688bn. Great that's 8bn more. But note that the Rest of UK gets 624Bn out of the pot which is £688bn - £64Bn. Which is £144Bn more than they put in.

So Scotland gets £8bn more than it put in. But the Rest of the UK gets £144Bn more than it puts in.

Worked out as percentages. We are putting in 9.9% and getting out 9.3% (9.9% is more than 9.3%). So we're getting less back. And we're only 8.8% of the UK population!

Hope that clears that up that we pay our own way and then some.

This has been the case for 30 years!


So ask yourself why we have free prescritpions, education etc and you don't with the above info. If it's affordable for us. It should be affordable for you. Where is the money going? It's how you chose to spend the money. And that's the reason for the Indy Drive.

Right back to work
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