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Originally Posted by roninsoldier83
I also think you should learn to accept the fact that timing control can be beneficial when it comes to optimizing (<--key word) a tune. It's not personal, and it's nothing against the JB3/4, so please don't take it as such, but just realize the truth of the thing. In all reality, the Procede doesn't have nearly the user adjustability as many standalone ECU's (Haltech, Motronic ect)... look at the price difference... it's not supposed to. Many people don't want/need that level of involvement. Comparatively, the JB4 is less than optimum due to the fact that it doesn't control timing... it's also only $479. You get what you pay for, and people understand that. It's been proven (even stated in my original post) that on otherwise stock cars, the DME is adaptable enough to save your motor running a JB3/4, that is well understood, and agreed upon. However, it is not optimal, as optimal IMO would be a map created specifically for a person's car, with their specific mods, on their fuel, in their environment, that does not see knock under normal conditions (i.e. consistent).
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I appreciate the note and I would also ask that before invoking product names in your posts that you spend more time learning the platform. Clearly certain aspects of how the N54 works are being mischaracterized to fit in to your model of how you've tuned other platforms or how you think it should work. For example, you and clap135 continually ignore the adaptive timing system. Instead you say "well, if you set the advance maximums so low that it can't adapt up then you'll have tuning like you would in any other platform", and that is of course true. But no one does that and for very good reason. The adaptive advance system is one of the best things about this
platform. Timing is managed on a cylinder by cylinder basis and is almost perfectly timed in every situation, condition, and octane. It's never lazy or undertimed and never knocks. Try doing that with manual timing tables.
Also this has nothing to do with products. The fact is there are more tunes out there using the JB3s method of timing control than there are using CPS. It's about understanding how the DME and tunes work. I think clap135 put it really eloquently when he said if you add race gas and timing goes up its knocking. That seems a reasonable position and as I've said that will happen with any tune on this market. If you don't believe it then let's put that to the test once again. You'll be surprised.
Mike