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      11-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #79
BMW269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
I was more or less just sharing my conflicting thoughts/feelings on the issue. I wasn't necessarily trying to argue one side or another.

All of your viewpoints seem reasonable and make sense to me (particularly considering your perspective).



I don't have a dog in the fight with respect to the topic. I was just trying to promote passionate, reasoned discussion.

But, since you asked (and because you obviously spent some time on your post), I'll throw in my two cents.

To a very limited extent, I do think BMW will suffer by doing business in a way that causes "enthusiasts" to perceive that BMW/M is "getting soft."

On the other hand, even if BMW does lose an enthusiast customer (like me), this loss may only be a temporary one.

Although I've made a switch to MB AMG for the moment, I would happily lease an F80 M3 someday (provided that it drives the way I want it to).

What I guess I'm saying is that even if BMW loses some hardcore enthusiast customers in the short term, these customers will always be replaced tenfold by either those who like the softer, more luxurious cars, or by those who are simply seeking the badge.

The hardcore enthusiast customer is usually always pretty in-tune with what is going on in the automotive world and if the F80 M3 turns out to be a grand slam, BMW/M will gain the enthusiasts back in the long run.

Finally, I don't necessarily think that all the fault lies with BMW/M.

For example, MB/AMG have really stepped up their game since about 2011. AMGs are simply no longer just luxurious, straight-line monsters. Exercises in engineering such as the C63 AMG Black Series and SLS AMG Black Series are prime examples of the direction that the AMG Division is going.

As an enthusiast, I first and foremost want a car that is fun to drive. I want the car to be fun on the street and I want it to be fun on the track as well. Lap times are great but lap times and smiles are better.

I was incredibly close to getting a "Lime Rock" E92 M3 but ended up going with the AMG. The steering on the C63 was crisper, more communicative, and a tad heavier. The C63 felt wonderfully neutral. On the street, both cars handled identically. The C63 did feel a bit heavier but it's hard to worry about that too much when you downshift to third and the rear tires break loose.

It was a very tough decision. The DCT in the M3 was absolutely beautiful. I ended up falling in love with the torque and sonorous exhaust note of the C63, however.

I wish I could have both of those cars honestly. I think the E9X M3 was a home run for BMW.

With respect to the forthcoming M cars, this is all I have to say:

Dear BMW, I do not need engine noise electronically piped into the cabin. I do not need thousands of combination/permutations of throttle, transmission, suspension, steering, etc. settings. I want the steering to be sporty and consistent; same goes for the suspension. Give me a few transmission/throttle settings; that's all I need.



Well said.

Did you see the shots of the spied new C Class W205? It looks great, interior too looks like segment leader. Imagine that beauty with a Biturbo 4.0l V8 making 485 PS, tons of torque and it can handle... Note the SLS AMG BS did 7:25 around the N-Ring, no BMW can come close. If not the manual, I don't see the M4 having an advantage on paper and based on previous tendency of BMW cars.
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