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      07-07-2011, 09:09 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
...You are assuming I think Mr. Boehner is a good leader. I do not...

...you continue to point fingers at republican incompetence instead of dealing with Obama's or the debt limit discussions...
Good, we both agree that John Boner is a worthless leader, unsuitable to lead even a yappy little dog on a leash (Cantor). I'm glad we can agree. The sad part is that Boner is the top of the ladder in the Republican House leadership. Which says a lot about the loooong line of weak Republicans behind him in the House, who elected Boner as the best leader among themselves.


As for Obama, I went over exactly what Obama did better than your own benchmark of excellence, Bill Clinton, and how Obama beat your own benchmark. It is pretty funny that you have chosen to now minimize Obamacare, DADT, Stimulus, and the Hate Crime expansion. Now that you don't think that they are a big deal, I'm looking forward to you NEVER bitching and moaning about them.

(Actually, I'm looking forward to you bitching and moaning about them in the future, just so I can link back to your post and point out how you minimized the significance of all these issues when it suited your political whims.)

Last edited by 11Series; 07-07-2011 at 11:22 PM.
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      07-07-2011, 09:10 PM   #68
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Wiki?? WIKI????





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Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
You are assuming I think Mr. Boehner is a good leader. I do not. But then, I am not about to vote for him for president either. I do happen to agree with some of his positions on the debt limit. That is, I think it would be great to cut the federal budget and using the debt limit as a bargaining chip is a good way to accomplish this.

Also, you continue to point fingers at republican incompetence instead of dealing with Obama's or the debt limit discussions. Saying someone else is just as stupid does not make your man seem smarter. If anything it looks to me like you are conceding the point that Obama is as ineffective a leader of Mr. Boehner.



There are huge differences between what Clinton tried to pass in his health care reform bill and what Obama actually passed. Clinton wanted to pass universal health care, like what Europe and Canada have. Obama's bill simply requires you to buy insurance and gives incentives to businesses to cut your health care (in that the tax penalty is a lot less money than the cost of health care annually).

Here are the Wikis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton...e_plan_of_1993
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_..._United_States

Also, passing economic stimulus is not really that impressive. Hell Bush passed two different forms of it. Not that either his or Obama's were at all effective, we are still at 9% unemployment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economi...us_Act_of_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble...Relief_Program

What about DADT? Oh wait, its not effective until the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff certify that repeal will not harm military readiness, followed by a 60-day waiting period. It has taken an order from the judiciary to keep the military from enforcing it. What a victory! Don't believe me? Read the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ask,_don%27t_tell



Again, I don't think Boehner is any better a leader than Obama. But then, as I said above, I am not about to vote for him for president in 2012 either. My statement was that Obama is a bad leader and a bad president. I stand by it. I never claimed Boehner is a good speaker of the house. Simply disliking one particular Democrat does not make me a promoter of some random Republican straw man you decide to choose. It also does not make Obama any better a president or leader.
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      07-07-2011, 11:19 PM   #69
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Obama's chances for reelection can increase if he stops going on weekly vacations and golf games. Until then he's fucked. Also, someone should put a cap on that idiot wife of his and her world trips with her mother and 43 personal assistants. No one wants to pay for her absolutely pointless expeditions.
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      07-07-2011, 11:31 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
...
You suggested closing corporate tax loopholes[to raise revenue], only to be blocked by Republicans who have signed a pledge to never do that...

You suggested taxing the unemployed, impovrished, and the elderly -- only to learn that poor people don't have the cash to run the country...

Any other ideas?

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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Obama's chances for reelection can increase if he stops going on weekly vacations and golf games. Until then he's fucked. Also, someone should put a cap on that idiot wife of his and her world trips with her mother and 43 personal assistants. No one wants to pay for her absolutely pointless expeditions.

I guess the answer is that you don't have any other ideas on solving the debt crisis.

The debt crisis isn't because of Obama's wife or your over-exagerated claims about Obama's free time. You guys tried going after Obama with character attacks in the last election. We see how well that worked. Unless you have a better tactic this time, get ready to see history repeat itself.

Last edited by 11Series; 07-07-2011 at 11:55 PM.
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      07-08-2011, 10:46 AM   #71
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Cut spending! Haha, there's no other way. If you want increased tax revenue the only way to do it is by getting new taxpayers, that means hiring needs to start up again. Unemployment increased in June to 9.2%, looks like Obama cannot fix it.
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      07-08-2011, 11:29 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Cut spending! Haha, there's no other way. If you want increased tax revenue the only way to do it is by getting new taxpayers, that means hiring needs to start up again. Unemployment increased in June to 9.2%, looks like Obama cannot fix it.

I agree we need more jobs here in the US.

But the June employment numbers prove that Republican control of State and local governments is CAUSING the poor job numbers. The Republican dominated cuts in government jobs overshadowed otherwise OK private sector job growth.

Excluding jobs lost due to the EXACT spending cuts that you propose, we had a rather decent 54,000 job expansion in the private job sector. Unfortunately these job gains were eviscerated by 39,000 job losses in the public sector -- 100% due to the exact spending cuts you support.


"The numbers show that the conservative recovery continues, with the private sector adding jobs and the public sector cutting them. The services, mining, and leisure and hospitality sectors all added jobs. In all, the private sector added 54,000 jobs. But government has been shedding jobs consistently for the past year. It did so again in June, slashing 39,000 jobs. Government spending may be higher, but employment at the federal, state and local level is falling."


This is proof positive that what spending cuts are doing RIGHT NOW in the economy is undercutting our jobs recovery. Your plan for massive gov't cutbacks is in direct contradiction of your idea of increasing the number of tax payers.


It's like a wolf freeing himself from a trap by gnawing all four of his own legs off.

Last edited by 11Series; 07-08-2011 at 11:39 AM.
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      07-09-2011, 07:41 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I agree we need more jobs here in the US.

But the June employment numbers prove that Republican control of State and local governments is CAUSING the poor job numbers. The Republican dominated cuts in government jobs overshadowed otherwise OK private sector job growth.

Excluding jobs lost due to the EXACT spending cuts that you propose, we had a rather decent 54,000 job expansion in the private job sector. Unfortunately these job gains were eviscerated by 39,000 job losses in the public sector -- 100% due to the exact spending cuts you support.


"The numbers show that the conservative recovery continues, with the private sector adding jobs and the public sector cutting them. The services, mining, and leisure and hospitality sectors all added jobs. In all, the private sector added 54,000 jobs. But government has been shedding jobs consistently for the past year. It did so again in June, slashing 39,000 jobs. Government spending may be higher, but employment at the federal, state and local level is falling."


This is proof positive that what spending cuts are doing RIGHT NOW in the economy is undercutting our jobs recovery. Your plan for massive gov't cutbacks is in direct contradiction of your idea of increasing the number of tax payers.


It's like a wolf freeing himself from a trap by gnawing all four of his own legs off.

I think

we should all drive around white toyota's that are given to us by the government, and work 9-5 jobs all controlled by the government, and all get paid evenly from the government, all go on vacation paid by the government, and only eat food supplied by the government, and all be treated equal and loved..

DAMN YOU REPUBLICANS!


See how dumb that sounds?
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      07-10-2011, 05:31 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by E90SoFlo View Post
I think

we should all drive around white toyota's that are given to us by the government, and work 9-5 jobs all controlled by the government, and all get paid evenly from the government, all go on vacation paid by the government, and only eat food supplied by the government, and all be treated equal and loved..

DAMN YOU REPUBLICANS!


See how dumb that sounds?

Yes, I agree you, you sound very dumb.

What does it have to do with anything I said?
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      07-11-2011, 10:35 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SoFlo View Post
I think

we should all drive around white toyota's that are given to us by the government, and work 9-5 jobs all controlled by the government, and all get paid evenly from the government, all go on vacation paid by the government, and only eat food supplied by the government, and all be treated equal and loved..

DAMN YOU REPUBLICANS!


See how dumb that sounds?
Communism in it's purest form, is such a wonderful idea. Unfortunately, like most other things, humans SCREW IT ALL UP!!!!
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      07-11-2011, 07:27 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I agree we need more jobs here in the US.

But the June employment numbers prove that Republican control of State and local governments is CAUSING the poor job numbers. The Republican dominated cuts in government jobs overshadowed otherwise OK private sector job growth.

Excluding jobs lost due to the EXACT spending cuts that you propose, we had a rather decent 54,000 job expansion in the private job sector. Unfortunately these job gains were eviscerated by 39,000 job losses in the public sector -- 100% due to the exact spending cuts you support.


"The numbers show that the conservative recovery continues, with the private sector adding jobs and the public sector cutting them. The services, mining, and leisure and hospitality sectors all added jobs. In all, the private sector added 54,000 jobs. But government has been shedding jobs consistently for the past year. It did so again in June, slashing 39,000 jobs. Government spending may be higher, but employment at the federal, state and local level is falling."


This is proof positive that what spending cuts are doing RIGHT NOW in the economy is undercutting our jobs recovery. Your plan for massive gov't cutbacks is in direct contradiction of your idea of increasing the number of tax payers.


It's like a wolf freeing himself from a trap by gnawing all four of his own legs off.
Funny, the states with the highest unemployment rates are traditional Democratic strongholds.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...ident/map.html

CA=11.7, FL=10.6, MI=10.3, NV=12.1, RI=10.9... Only South Carolina went for McCain in 2008, and had an unemployment rate of 10.0.
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      07-11-2011, 10:32 PM   #77
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Texas also added half of the jobs gained under Obama. One state in itself made 50% of the reported new jobs.
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      07-12-2011, 11:59 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
Funny, the states with the highest unemployment rates are traditional Democratic strongholds.
Gee Einstein, you think that has anything to do with percentage of urban population in these states?
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      07-12-2011, 12:33 PM   #79
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Gee Einstein, you think that has anything to do with percentage of urban population in these states?
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      07-12-2011, 05:12 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
Funny, the states with the highest unemployment rates are traditional Democratic strongholds.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...ident/map.html

CA=11.7, FL=10.6, MI=10.3, NV=12.1, RI=10.9... Only South Carolina went for McCain in 2008, and had an unemployment rate of 10.0.
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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Texas also added half of the jobs gained under Obama. One state in itself made 50% of the reported new jobs.

You forgot to mention lowest unemployment rate is Republican controlled North Dakota. And there are budget surpluses in the state that has the highest ratio of Republican gov't officials in the entire US (Wyoming).

If you want to understand why, you first have to understand that the massive surge in oil prices that started in the mid 2000's has been "the largest wealth transfer in the history of mankind!" --Republican Congressman J. Sullivan

http://sullivan.house.gov/News/Docum...umentID=239756

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/in...eid=&pagename=

This has been a drain on the US economy like nothing we've ever seen, draining "$2 billion per day importing foreign oil" permanently from the US economy. This is causing job losses in the US, and taking cash out of our economy and funding Oil Sheiks buying exotic cars in record numbers.

What we are seeing with Republican states, like Texas, North Dakota, and Wyoming is the same thing. It is the SECOND largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world, behind the transfer of wealth to OPEC and other oil nations. All of these places are raking in tons of money because of record high oil prices. Who is paying these record high oil prices? Non-oil states like CA, FL, MI, NV, RI that happen to be strong blue states.



Texas, who is the top dog in the US (selling approx 1,000,000 barrels/day to the other states) is playing the same role the oil sheiks play, draining cash out of non-oil producing states. Just like OPEC and the oil sheiks are draining US wealth.

Every time someone in CA, FL, MI, NV, or RI goes to a gas station and fills their tank, they send money and jobs to OPEC and Texas. Urban populations consume oil, not cash in on it like many Rural states like Texas, North Dakota, and Wyoming. We are seeing the natural and predictable results of these massive transfers of wealth. It's going to continue as long as the US Oil Sheiks and their OPEC buddies have us bent over the barrel, fvcking us from behind. Don't expect any help from the GOP (Grand Oil Party), they've been bought and sold to be puppets, apologizing and bowing to their Oil Company masters at every chance.


I'm sure you will explain how the oil price spikes that started years before Obama started his term are all Obama's fault.... Just like you guys say that the 2007 recession is Obama's fault, even though it began before Obama was even nominated to run as the Democratic candidate.
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      07-12-2011, 09:24 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
Gee Einstein, you think that has anything to do with percentage of urban population in these states?
It might be, or it might be proof that the states are mismanaged. Regardless, and your sarcasm aside, percentage of urban population is irrelevant. The point of the post was to respond to the claim that Republicans are at fault for the high unemployment rate. It follows from this that Republican states would have the highest unemployment rates, regardless of urban, suburban or rural populations. That isn't the case by the government's own statistics.
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      07-12-2011, 09:51 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I'm sure you will explain how the oil price spikes that started years before Obama started his term are all Obama's fault.... Just like you guys say that the 2007 recession is Obama's fault, even though it began before Obama was even nominated to run as the Democratic candidate.
I don't blame Obama for everything, just his actions and inactions since getting to office. I also don't think the 2007 recession is his fault. I actually believe that the run up to the recession occurred through decades of pro-housing policies destroying good underwriting practices and the steady erosion of recession era banking laws like the Glass Steagall act. The failure of the nation to have a comprehensive energy policy is both parties fault for never tackling it. Every president in the last 50 years has preached energy independence and then done nothing about it once they get into office.

Obama's only fault on oil policy is that he clearly doesn't have a policy. Also, his fed chairman has chosen a low interest rate easy money policy that has caused money to move into commodities as a hedge against inflation which, in turn compounds the inflationary pressure on prices.

I have more fault with Obama's recession policies. In a time of recession he passes a healthcare bill promising to both increase costs and increase taxes on corporations. He then compounds this by threatening constantly to raise taxes by letting Bush tax cuts expire and raising taxes on high earners which also hits most small businesses through tax rules dealing with subchapter S corporations. Essentially, it treats small business income as personal income, and is taxed at income rates. On top of this he keeps trying to alleviate the tax pressures he is creating with temporary tax credits. The end result is a huge amount of uncertainty surrounding one of the largest expenses an employer faces, his taxes. This is a huge disincentive to hire anyone because it makes a company unable to adequately analyze the value of the additional capacity additional workers creates.
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      07-13-2011, 11:33 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
It might be, or it might be proof that the states are mismanaged. Regardless, and your sarcasm aside, percentage of urban population is irrelevant. The point of the post was to respond to the claim that Republicans are at fault for the high unemployment rate. It follows from this that Republican states would have the highest unemployment rates, regardless of urban, suburban or rural populations. That isn't the case by the government's own statistics.
Jobs are fungible and follow the flow of money and capital. The flow of money and capitol (and thus jobs) does not stop at state borders. This is why the 1/2 Million public jobs lost due to local, state, and federal budget don't directly translate to per-state numbers. The PRIVATE sector job shifts to oil-rich states explains why half a million public sector job loses don't directly align with each state when you look at overall employment numbers.

The effect of oil on the private jobs sector is so significant, that it is even shifting the ratio of white collar jobs to blue collar jobs in oil rich states.

From Fox Crime Syndicate:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...-disappearing/

"The last major reason that white-collar jobs as a percentage of the total have dropped in some of these seven states is that they are resource rich. Many of the people who have come to states like North Dakota and Alaska have probably not come to be managers. The growth in the number of people who work oil wells, mines and farm equipment has fueled the work force size in these states. States with crude and metals resources, as well as agricultural products, will likely continue that trend."

Texas:

"since the end of the recession through April 2011, 37% of all jobs created in the U.S. have been created in Texas, according to the Dallas Federal Reserve. As an oil-rich state, this job growth has primarily been for blue-collar job"

Alaska:

"In 2000, two of Alaska’s top ten largest private sector employers were in either the oil field services or oil and gas extraction business. By 2010, that number had increased to three"

North Dakota:

"One of the driving forces of the state’s economic growth is the development of oil fields currently taking place. This development requires a disproportionate number of blue-collar workers"


You can either look at at the overall numbers, and make wild-ass guesses, or you can actually look at the underlying data and see what is REALLY going on. Half a million private sector job losses directly lowers overall job numbers by half a million jobs. This is why the job growth rate is about half a million LOWER than the prior 6 month period.

Last edited by 11Series; 07-13-2011 at 11:38 AM.
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      07-13-2011, 11:58 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post

Obama's only fault on oil policy is that he clearly doesn't have a policy.

Also, his fed chairman has chosen a low interest rate easy money policy that has caused money to move into commodities as a hedge against inflation which, in turn compounds the inflationary pressure on prices.

I have more fault with Obama's recession policies. In a time of recession he passes a healthcare bill promising to both increase costs and increase taxes on corporations. He then compounds this by threatening constantly to raise taxes by letting Bush tax cuts expire and raising taxes on high earners which also hits most small businesses through tax rules dealing with subchapter S corporations. Essentially, it treats small business income as personal income, and is taxed at income rates. On top of this he keeps trying to alleviate the tax pressures he is creating with temporary tax credits. The end result is a huge amount of uncertainty surrounding one of the largest expenses an employer faces, his taxes. This is a huge disincentive to hire anyone because it makes a company unable to adequately analyze the value of the additional capacity additional workers creates.
If you think Obama doesn't have an energy policy, you are willfully blind. If you spent a whole 1.273 seconds on google you would understand why you are completely wrong.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/energy

Obama doesn't run the Fed Bank. It is a non-gov't entity that doesn't answer to the US President. It is owned by a group of major private regional banks.

If Bush wanted to make his Tax cuts permanent, he should have done the required budget cuts to balance the lost revenue. Bush pvssied out by making them temporary so he didn't have to make the spending cuts, and he left the economic disaster that decision caused to future generations. Not sure how this is Obama's fault?

If you are going to cry about "uncertainty", there is absolutely nothing causing more "uncertainty" than the Republicans trying to shut down the entire government every 3 months. Small business owners that run payroll on a revolving line of credit indexed to the gov't bond rates, will see interest rates explode if we default. This is REAL uncertainty. Same for each and every company that has a gov't contract who doesn't know if they will be paid next month. Same for every single social security recipient, and every single business that gets business from social security recipients. Etc, etc, the damages go on and on, and will put us right back into recession.

The level of "uncertainty" being caused by the Republican House is off the charts!

Last edited by 11Series; 07-13-2011 at 06:56 PM.
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      07-13-2011, 05:23 PM   #85
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Obama's had over 800 days to create a budget yet has not done so. He could have easily passed one last year but no, he didn't, he "pussied out." Also, Obama has spent more money in his 3 years than Bush did in all his 8. He also made the US lose the Space race against Russia when he decided to shut down NASA, now it's the russians that will be building space weapons, this angers me a lot more than the fact that we won't meet little green men. Obama also managed to pass a multi-trillion dollar health reform bill that will bankrupt the states and the government. He passed it when the majority of Americans opposed it and in the midst of a horrible recession. Unemployment continues to rise as does our debt. This is Obama's economy so the blame bush card won't work anymore. He's spent trillions to help the economy and has failed. Sorry, Obama will go down as being the worst president in US history, bye-bye Jimmy Carter.
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      07-13-2011, 06:23 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Obama's had over 800 days to create a budget yet has not done so. He could have easily passed one last year but no, he didn't, he "pussied out." Also, Obama has spent more money in his 3 years than Bush did in all his 8. He also made the US lose the Space race against Russia when he decided to shut down NASA, now it's the russians that will be building space weapons, this angers me a lot more than the fact that we won't meet little green men. Obama also managed to pass a multi-trillion dollar health reform bill that will bankrupt the states and the government. He passed it when the majority of Americans opposed it and in the midst of a horrible recession. Unemployment continues to rise as does our debt. This is Obama's economy so the blame bush card won't work anymore. He's spent trillions to help the economy and has failed. Sorry, Obama will go down as being the worst president in US history, bye-bye Jimmy Carter.
yeah because the economy can quickly change. blame everything on one person good thinking.

its hard to pass a budget when democrats and republicans can't even compromise.

Last edited by ghosthi32; 07-13-2011 at 06:28 PM.
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      07-13-2011, 06:52 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Obama's had over 800 days to create a budget yet has not done so. He could have easily passed one last year but no, he didn't, he "pussied out." Also, Obama has spent more money in his 3 years than Bush did in all his 8. He also made the US lose the Space race against Russia when he decided to shut down NASA, now it's the russians that will be building space weapons, this angers me a lot more than the fact that we won't meet little green men. Obama also managed to pass a multi-trillion dollar health reform bill that will bankrupt the states and the government. He passed it when the majority of Americans opposed it and in the midst of a horrible recession. Unemployment continues to rise as does our debt. This is Obama's economy so the blame bush card won't work anymore. He's spent trillions to help the economy and has failed. Sorry, Obama will go down as being the worst president in US history, bye-bye Jimmy Carter.

What is wrong with you people today that you can't take 1.723 seconds to fact check any of the crap you spew?

Obama's budget proposal is right here, no pussying out:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/

Only a right-winger would cry about Obama making the hard economic decisions, like canceling Bush's program to go back to the moon, while crying at the same time that Obama spends too much.

NOT passing Obamacare is what would bankrupt the gov't and states. Health care costs have been skyrocketing for the last decade, as have the number of uninsured. Doing nothing means more of the same.

Bush will stop being for blame for leaving Obama with an economy in the worst recession since the Great Depression the minute someone invents a time machine and goes back and changes history. The facts will ALWAYS be the facts. Clinton will ALWAYS have handed Bush a budget surplus, and Bush will ALWAYS have handed Obama the worst economic mess in modern history.
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      07-13-2011, 07:06 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Unemployment continues to rise as does our debt.
Correct. We need to fix that. Unfortunately, everything you've suggested to change that has gone down in flames.

You suggested closing corporate tax loopholes to raise revenue -- only to be blocked by 97% of Congressional Republicans who have signed a pledge to never do that.

You suggested taxing the unemployed, impovrished, and the elderly -- only to learn that poor people don't have the cash to run the country.

You suggested cutting gov't spending to create jobs to increase tax revenues -- only to learn that cutting gov't has actually cost half a million jobs so far this year and accounts for the slowing of overall job growth statistics.

Any other ideas?
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