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      07-15-2011, 12:53 PM   #133
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Leave it up to our (oh god this is bad) government to determine how soon we will be controlled by China.
Weren't we about to be taken over by Japan in the '70's-'80's? And isn't Japan now about to be taken over by Korea, China, and India?

And wasn't England (and later Germany) about to be taken over by us? Yet Japan, Germany, England, France, Italy, and Switzerland all still exist, and are in-fact all doing OK. We'll be fine, as long as we get off foreign oil.
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      07-15-2011, 01:33 PM   #134
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Bolin P

Want to talk policy?

What percent increase in domestic oil production do you think we need in order to make a dent in gas prices and significantly change our energy independence?

5%? 10%? 15%?

Give me a hard number on what YOU think would be an effective policy.
I'm not going to pretend to be smart enough to be able to answer that question with certainty.

There's so much that goes into that question besides just throwing a percentage out there, such as how much we are able to ween ourselves off of foreign oil, or if we begin to pursue natural gas vehicles en masse (which we should be doing).
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      07-15-2011, 02:00 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
When you say "Obama thinks" or "Obama wants", you're not stating a fact, rather you're projecting your political bias on the issue.
I see your point.

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Because the potential increase in oil, years from now, will be a small percentage of a small percentage. Besides, after 6 years of Bush/Cheney presiding over a repub congress, why wouldn't all the possible drilling opportunities already be tapped?
You're speaking from an extremely narrow perspective. Yes, in order to keep our oil production at a steady level, more wells have to continually be drilled because of decline rates. But you aren't taking into account the massive amounts of oil that has recently become recoverable because of new technology, and the massive amounts of oil that are not recoverable today, but will undoubtedly be recoverable in 5, 10, 15 years from now.

I am not advocating that we stay on oil for decades - That is unrealistic. We need to begin to move towards alternatives, but the way that Obama and the democrats want to go about it is not going to work. You have to keep your oil and gas industry alive and kicking (not tax them into oblivion and not tell them where they can and cannot drill and not restrict how they do business), you have to begin using natural gas in high volumes (ie. vehicles) and/or exporting natural gas on a larger scale, just to name a few.

Electric vehicles was a god awful sorry attempt. It doesn't make sense from a cost perspective, and it doesn't make sense from an electrical capacity perspective. The country wasn't ready for it and didn't want it, but I guess it's only several billion dollars, right?

In regards to your second sentence. Are you really being serious? You're being melodramatic at the very least, facetious at the worst. You don't just "drill up" all of the countries oil reserves in six years. Do you realize how many barrels of oil in place is under the United States? Let's take the Permian Basin in West Texas as an example. Many experts believe that this basin alone has as much oil in place as all of Saudi Arabia. In the last year or two, operators have been streaming back into that area because of the price of oil, and also because of several new target zones (some being shales) in the area. It is estimated that they are recovering anywhere from 1-4% of the oil in place at the specific spot that they are drilling, primarily because of the "tight" nature of the sands and shale packages throughout the basin's stratigraphy. They are very dense, not very permeable, and they are hard to fracture and produce from. Every year or two, operators are able to recover a higher percentage of the oil in place through advances in technology and the ability to learn from mistakes and improve their methods.
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      07-15-2011, 02:25 PM   #136
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Uh, you know it doesn't work if you make-up hate-spawned lies, when the actual policy is posted just above yours. Why do you think anyone cares about the stick you have up your ass about Obama, when we're trying to actually have a conversation about policy and facts?

Do you feel better making pointless posts, just as long as you can use the word "nobama"? The way you cling to that juvenile bumper-sticker pejorative, I'm starting to think that "old army" must refer to a collection of G.I. Joes.

You sure spend a lot of time following me around. Try the ignore function.

I like Nobama, it beats the hell out of the other nicknames that come readily to mind.
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      07-15-2011, 03:05 PM   #137
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You sure spend a lot of time following me around. Try the ignore function.
As usual, you're 100% wrong. I spend no time following you around, and I have absolutely no idea what prompted you to say that. I've been involved in this sub-forum for months, and in this thread in-particular for a week or 2. What does that have to do with me replying to your post?
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      07-15-2011, 03:15 PM   #138
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Why do you like Obama? Seriously, besides increase the deficit 40%, bring unemployment to 9.2% and have us engaged in five wars, what good has he done? Besides socializing medicine, pass the largest financial overhaul in our history and repeal DODT, why would you like him? I doubt you want redistribution of wealth and large government but you continue to support a president who wants these things.
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      07-15-2011, 03:19 PM   #139
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Obama has grown government more than anyone else in history and as you can see from his failed policies big government = fail. He isn't even a good leader, recently all he's said was "come up with a solution for this debt ceiling by the end of the week" and then he leaves. Wednesday he left all talks with republicans and democrats in the middle of discussions because he can't get 100% of everything he wants. He can't debate, that's his problem, without a teleprompter he's lost.
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      07-15-2011, 03:26 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by bolinp78 View Post
You don't just "drill up" all of the countries oil reserves in six years.
I think you may have misunderstood - I meant "tapped" as in tapped-into, not tapped-out. I know this all takes years, but my point was that there was certainly no impediment for Bush/Cheney to establish new sites.

At the same time, I'm not aware of Obama shutting-down or freezing any Bush/Cheney expansion. In fact, Obama specifically said in a SOTU address that he wants to increase the percentage of US-sourced energy (including oil and coal) while we transition towards new US technologies. So what's wrong with that?

And yes, I agree that electric cars are fairly stupid, but the electric car mandate was put in place years ago.
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      07-15-2011, 04:17 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Why do you like Obama? Seriously, besides increase the deficit 40%, bring unemployment to 9.2% and have us engaged in five wars, what good has he done? Besides socializing medicine, pass the largest financial overhaul in our history and repeal DODT, why would you like him? I doubt you want redistribution of wealth and large government but you continue to support a president who wants these things. Obama has grown government more than anyone else in history and as you can see from his failed policies big government = fail. He isn't even a good leader, recently all he's said was "come up with a solution for this debt ceiling by the end of the week" and then he leaves. Wednesday he left all talks with republicans and democrats in the middle of discussions because he can't get 100% of everything he wants. He can't debate, that's his problem, without a teleprompter he's lost.
You are truly uninformed and drinking the kool-aid. Your statements consistently contradict the facts referenced in this very thread, yet you seem unfettered, and keep spewing the same rhetoric.

Let me briefly try to correct your points:
- Obama (and the other 2008 pres candidates) did not cause the recession, corporate failures, or unemployment. It was a worldwide event, which built-up over many years.
- Obama did not cause the deficit increase or the 9.2% unemployment rate. He stepped into a recession at it's peak. If you need a reference, look at Reagan's 1st term in office - same thing, except unemployment peaked in his 4th year, whereas now it has peaked in year 2, which is better.
- Obama has ended combat in Iraq, and is closing out Afghanistan, how should that be held against him? He sent troops into Libya for a few weeks before NATO took over, which is no different than the dozens of conflicts every previous president has sent troops into.
- The TARP bailout was done by Bush and the repubs, not Obama. Obama did the stimulus, which was obviously successful, since the stock market is up 100%, corporate bankrupcies are way down, and the recession is over. Again, unemployment is down from the peak, but still high, just as Obama and every economist predicted back in 2009, when they said "jobs are the last thing to come back after a recession".
- Obama has not increased the size of govt, just as Bush didn't decrease it. That's all propaganda bullshit. There has also been no redistribution of wealth, but it's a fun phrase to memorize, eh?
- There has been absolutely no additional socializing of healthcare benefits, ZERO. Medicaire and Medicaid (which are socialized) were untouched, and the coverage of formerly uninsured americans is handled completely by private providers. Again, nice catch-phrase, but 100% untrue.
- Obama has generally been able to get 0% of what he wants in talks with republicans. They are so singularly focused on getting this "wild foreigner" out of office, they have opposed him 100% at every opportunity. When Bush was pres, John Bolton said "we should be able to do whatever we want, unopposed, because we're the party that the american people elected". I wish the Obama administration could use that reasoning.
- Obama's a brilliant speaker and debator, as evidenced by dozens of press conferences, interviews, and debating forums where there are no prewritten speeches or responses.

Anything else? Aren't you late for that Harry Potter movie?
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      07-15-2011, 06:01 PM   #142
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Yes he has spent $4 trillion we don't have. Yes, Obamacare will be repealed and if you read the news you'll see that even senate democrats have problems with; i.e. the medical payment advisory board and the new restrictions on health savings accounts are opposed by all republicans and so far 9 democrats. The recession started under bush but Obama hasn't stopped the bleeding, there are still countless jobs being lost as we speak. Obama also is responsible for not having a balanced budget because he won't budge from his stance on repealing the bush tax cuts. Obama welcomes dictators like Chavez and the Chinese one yet shuns our closets ally Netanyahu from Israel. Remember the huge dinner and feasts he prepared for the Chinese yet when Netanyahu came a couple months ago to discuss the stupid things he said against israel, Obama left for vacation or another round of golf. Obama claims he's the most transparent president in history yet all his meetings and deal makings are behind closed doors. During the healthcare reform times not a single meeting was made public, even CSPAN couldn't film.
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      07-15-2011, 06:23 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by bolinp78 View Post
I'm not going to pretend to be smart enough to be able to answer that question with certainty.

There's so much that goes into that question besides just throwing a percentage out there, such as how much we are able to ween ourselves off of foreign oil, or if we begin to pursue natural gas vehicles en masse (which we should be doing).

Oh, I see. You are brilliant enough to analyze complex Obama Energy Policies (without ever reading them) and determine they are crap, but not "smart enough" to even take a WAG at what percent increase in oil production YOUR favorite policy would need to be effective.


I see a pattern building up here.

Whenever you are asked to be accountable for actual policy knowledge, you downgrade your qualifications. You say you really aren't the top dog oil industry big-wig. Or you aren't smart enough to answer with certainty.

But whenever you talk out your backside against Obama, you talk yourself up. Saying you are an oil industry insider, claiming superior knowledge on energy issues than the Obama administration and all his experts. And that you're smart, and Obama is stupid.


Clearly no chance of actual policy discussion with you.
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      07-15-2011, 06:24 PM   #144
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Also, why is a majority of Nancy Pelosi's district exempt from Obamacare? Why are so many of the laws proponents exempt from it as are all lawmakers and congressmen? If its any good then they should be subjected to it too. Hypocrisy at it's finest is what it is.
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      07-15-2011, 06:30 PM   #145
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+1 on all! Your penpal tries to set up false argument that Nobama didn't cause this recession or that unemployment. Who gives a rats azz what caused it? It's past time for effective action. He also runs headlong away from the real critique--that nobama has not done anything to fix these issues and indeed, his actions have just ratcheted up the misery. And lest we forget--the dems owned both houses from 2007 to the last election. Unemployment up. Deficit up. nobama and the democrats own it all.

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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Yes he has spent $4 trillion we don't have. Yes, Obamacare will be repealed and if you read the news you'll see that even senate democrats have problems with; i.e. the medical payment advisory board and the new restrictions on health savings accounts are opposed by all republicans and so far 9 democrats. The recession started under bush but Obama hasn't stopped the bleeding, there are still countless jobs being lost as we speak. Obama also is responsible for not having a balanced budget because he won't budge from his stance on repealing the bush tax cuts. Obama welcomes dictators like Chavez and the Chinese one yet shuns our closets ally Netanyahu from Israel. Remember the huge dinner and feasts he prepared for the Chinese yet when Netanyahu came a couple months ago to discuss the stupid things he said against israel, Obama left for vacation or another round of golf. Obama claims he's the most transparent president in history yet all his meetings and deal makings are behind closed doors. During the healthcare reform times not a single meeting was made public, even CSPAN couldn't film.
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      07-15-2011, 06:30 PM   #146
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Do you EVER attempt even basic fact checking before you spew?

This entire thread is completely full of you getting completely busted over and over on basic factual errors in your posts.

Do you ever get embarrassed at how many times you get easily confirmed facts completely wrong?



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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Yes he has spent $4 trillion we don't have. Yes, Obamacare will be repealed and if you read the news you'll see that even senate democrats have problems with; i.e. the medical payment advisory board and the new restrictions on health savings accounts are opposed by all republicans and so far 9 democrats. The recession started under bush but Obama hasn't stopped the bleeding, there are still countless jobs being lost as we speak. Obama also is responsible for not having a balanced budget because he won't budge from his stance on repealing the bush tax cuts. Obama welcomes dictators like Chavez and the Chinese one yet shuns our closets ally Netanyahu from Israel. Remember the huge dinner and feasts he prepared for the Chinese yet when Netanyahu came a couple months ago to discuss the stupid things he said against israel, Obama left for vacation or another round of golf. Obama claims he's the most transparent president in history yet all his meetings and deal makings are behind closed doors. During the healthcare reform times not a single meeting was made public, even CSPAN couldn't film.
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      07-15-2011, 06:40 PM   #147
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Do you EVER attempt even basic fact checking before you spew?

This entire thread is completely full of you getting completely busted over and over on basic factual errors in your posts.

Do you ever get embarrassed at how many times you get easily confirmed facts completely wrong?



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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
Yes he has spent $4 trillion we don't have. Yes, Obamacare will be repealed and if you read the news you'll see that even senate democrats have problems with; i.e. the medical payment advisory board and the new restrictions on health savings accounts are opposed by all republicans and so far 9 democrats. The recession started under bush but Obama hasn't stopped the bleeding, there are still countless jobs being lost as we speak. Obama also is responsible for not having a balanced budget because he won't budge from his stance on repealing the bush tax cuts. Obama welcomes dictators like Chavez and the Chinese one yet shuns our closets ally Netanyahu from Israel. Remember the huge dinner and feasts he prepared for the Chinese yet when Netanyahu came a couple months ago to discuss the stupid things he said against israel, Obama left for vacation or another round of golf. Obama claims he's the most transparent president in history yet all his meetings and deal makings are behind closed doors. During the healthcare reform times not a single meeting was made public, even CSPAN couldn't film.
Are you kidding me?!?!?? This is very common knowledge for anyone that follows politics. Go search and read google news to find multiple sources for what I wrote.
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      07-15-2011, 07:16 PM   #148
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Also, why is a majority of Nancy Pelosi's district exempt from Obamacare? Why are so many of the laws proponents exempt from it as are all lawmakers and congressmen? If its any good then they should be subjected to it too. Hypocrisy at it's finest is what it is.
Please cite a reference.
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      07-15-2011, 07:21 PM   #149
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Please refer to my complete set of factual answers to all of your false propaganda rhetoric. I've repeated myself enough.

None of your opinions matter anyway. You'll have to find a way to deal with 5 1/2 more years of Obama, so deal with it, or don't, doesn't affect me.
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      07-15-2011, 07:36 PM   #150
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http://m.examiner.com/exArlington/pm_63128/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3XKkroDN
Here's the pelosi one.
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      07-15-2011, 07:53 PM   #151
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http://m.examiner.com/exArlington/pm_63128/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3XKkroDN
Here's the pelosi one.
Having 20% of businesses apply for waivers is quite different than "a majority of Nancy Pelosi's district exempt from Obamacare?"

Come lil' doggy, keep spoutin' out them half truths and lies. Dont' worry, you can't get graded on these posts, so don't worry about your 6th grade history teacher failing you again.
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      07-15-2011, 08:13 PM   #152
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Yea, getting 20% of ALL of the waivers handed out sounds a lot worse actually. Besides, do you even support this crazy woman? How the hell did she get away with the things she said as leader; I.e. "we have to pass it before we can read it," then saying things against the CIA.
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      07-15-2011, 08:33 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08 View Post
http://m.examiner.com/exArlington/pm_63128/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3XKkroDN
Here's the pelosi one.

This is the crap you consider a SOURCE????

A right-wing OPINION piece from some jack-sh*t nobody blogger on an astroturf website wholely owned by right-wing political activist Philip Anschutz? A US Oil Sheik who is buddies with Republican Bob Dole, and used his oil fortune to launch christian conservative republican political causes? You'll let ANYONE astroturf your ss, won't you?

Holy crap! With sources like that, no wonder you get so much crap wrong!!!
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      07-15-2011, 08:38 PM   #154
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Yea, getting 20% of ALL of the waivers handed out sounds a lot worse actually. Besides, do you even support this crazy woman? How the hell did she get away with the things she said as leader; I.e. "we have to pass it before we can read it," then saying things against the CIA.

Says who? Your right wing blogger buddy who astroturfs for oil company owners who openly fund right wing political causes?

Your "facts" are still yet unsupported by anything.
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