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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > 335d Swirl Flaps



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      07-22-2011, 01:01 PM   #23
AlwynMike
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The later flaps had a 0.5mm larger diameter shaft.

They still fall apart though, but not as often.
Results are the same.
Clatter, Bang, Cash.
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      07-22-2011, 01:16 PM   #24
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How bizarre and thanks for this thread as I was completely unaware of this potential time bomb!
Just got to decide what to do now.I want to extend my warranty via BMW,so I would leave them in place.
If I don't extend, they will have to go...
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      07-22-2011, 01:56 PM   #25
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You have to weigh up the likely hood of the flaps falling into the engine against any potential damage caused by removing them. I have not read on any of the Forums that removing the flaps has any negative effects, and in the short term this is true. Although what no one knows or seems to care about and I include tunners, indies etc. is the long term potential damage to the DPF.
I'll explain, swirl flaps are fitted to create swirl in the combustion chamber swirl has a dramatic effect on reducing engine out soot or particulate matter or to most of us smoke. The very stuff the DPF stores and then burns off when it regenerates. So if you remove the swirl flaps the engine out levels off soot go up. Depending on the base engine and the calibration used, it can go up a lot. Remove the flaps and the DPF is suddenly getting filled every 100km instead of every 400km, so where BMW claim a DPF life of 100k miles, it has now decreased to 25K.
Plus frequent DPF regeneration increases fuel consumption and also the chance of fuel (used in post injections) entering the engine oil, leading to engine run-away and failure.
So before you whip out the flaps, just think about the above.

The only people who truely understand the use of swirl are the engineers who work for the vehicle manufacturer that is what I tell my boss when I need a pay rise

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      07-22-2011, 02:27 PM   #26
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Have there been any cases of post mod flaps failing?

I see this as marketing from the 'fix' manufacturer.

No doubt the original design was weak - the spindle had aspects of it's design that were not good (inviting fatigue issues) from the photos I saw of failed flaps - but having redesigned this part, surely they fully solved the problem. Very surprised if not.
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      07-25-2011, 12:59 AM   #27
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Well i got a friend that has a 320D, he got the swirlflaps removed the same day his warranty was out. That was after 2 years and 70.000km. Today the car has run 600.000km, yes thats 600.000km and its still running perfect! Yes his car does have DPF, and that didnt need to be changed before just now. He changed it 2 weeks ago when he hit 600.000km.

Well serviced and looked out for. The car still runs like "new"..
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      07-25-2011, 06:06 AM   #28
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Wow 373k miles with no DPF change...

must be super long runs he does to keep the dpf in such good shape.

Just shows how good these engines are when used in ideal conditions such as long journeys. But its not just miles that kill engines its age also
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      07-25-2011, 09:51 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
But its not just miles that kill engines its age also
Care to expand on that theory?

At what age does an engine reach its 'fecked by date'?
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      07-25-2011, 04:52 PM   #30
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So 335D owners, do we get these flaps removed or not ?
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      07-25-2011, 05:18 PM   #31
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Personally I'm not convinced (yet). The swirl flap installation is pretty much common to all BMW diesel engines I believe, so not just a 335d issue.

I was quite worried about this on my E46 330d (which was an auto - some early manual cars didn't have them) - but have not seen any real evidence of any problems on the E9x. That is not to say there is not a problem, just that I haven't seen one.

Maybe time for a trawl on bmwland for high mileage E6x/E9x stories.
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      07-25-2011, 06:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
Care to expand on that theory?

At what age does an engine reach its 'fecked by date'?
There is no set age but obviously the older it gets the more things tend to go wrong regardless of milage, seals rot and the engine rusts, not to mention electrical issues.

A car kept outside for 5 years will have a harder time thats in a garage every night etc.

My car now is kept in an underground carpark which is very dry and stable temperature, i have noticed that it stays clean for weeks instead of days.
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      08-15-2011, 05:04 PM   #33
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I've tried to find these flaps on www.realoem.com after selecting my 335d 04/2007, but I can't seem to find any?! So are u sure that 335d even has any? I'll look at my manifold tomorrow to see if I can spot any.
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      08-20-2011, 07:52 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janebrink View Post
I've tried to find these flaps on www.realoem.com after selecting my 335d 04/2007, but I can't seem to find any?! So are u sure that 335d even has any? I'll look at my manifold tomorrow to see if I can spot any.
This is the part - no.1 - you'll see it says with flap control.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...52&hg=11&fg=40

There are two inlets per cylinder; the upper and lower - the lower is what part 11 fits in. I think the flaps are only in the lower inlet, and are vacuum controlled, you can't really see any of this in the diagram.

The original design from 1998ish had flap spindles that could fail due to fatigue, probably compounded by deposits in the inlet affecting the motion of the flap and hence increasing loads on the parts.

I've still not seen any reported e9x failures - yet. I suspect the beefed up design from around 2005 has avoided the issue.
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      09-05-2012, 08:04 PM   #35
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I just pulled two codes after I went into "limp mode" last Sunday and earlier today:

46A7
46B7

"swirl flap actuator"

I have an appointment to bring it into the dealer tomorrow at 3pm.

EDIT: Just noticed the "UK Forum" note. I'm in Toronto, Canada.
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      09-05-2012, 08:22 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD
I just pulled two codes after I went into "limp mode" last Sunday and earlier today:

46A7
46B7

"swirl flap actuator"

I have an appointment to bring it into the dealer tomorrow at 3pm.

EDIT: Just noticed the "UK Forum" note. I'm in Toronto, Canada.
Greetings from the UK!
Hope it's nothing "terminal".
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      09-07-2012, 07:24 PM   #37
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I removed the swirl vanes myself using pmw blanks. The main reason is that the o rings on the vanes were leaking diesel down the side of the block. Very common, Ive seen a few like it. I thought if I am going to change the o rings I may as well get the blanks with them fitted.
I believe the car had less torque below 1800 rpm the fuel consumption dropped and the dpf started having issues. I then had to get rid of the dpf which has improved the car quite a bit. My car has 72k on it and the swirl vanes were like new. In fact I have kept them but I probably wont put them back, but Im not convinced it is a brilliant move. Of course if you take it all out as I have, it should work out ok,
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      09-08-2012, 02:52 AM   #38
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This is all lovely, but I've not heard anyone, not one person on here that has had swirl flap failure on an e90.

E46 for sure.

E90 swirl issue is ramped right up imho.

Edit...

I see someone had sw actuator problem above. Surely the actuator not working properly isn't quite the same as terminal ingestion?
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      09-08-2012, 08:42 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart1000 View Post
This is all lovely, but I've not heard anyone, not one person on here that has had swirl flap failure on an e90.

E46 for sure.

E90 swirl issue is ramped right up imho.

Edit...

I see someone had sw actuator problem above. Surely the actuator not working properly isn't quite the same as terminal ingestion?
Agreed! with my experience I've not seen anything about the later flaps on e90 6 pots at all, the swirl flaps on the later e90's play a larger part with the ecu software (swirl and tumble), my own 330d is high mileage and they are still installed and I looked at them last year when I removed them to installed pwr blanks after reading all the horror stories, I then ran the car for 4 weeks and noticed less responce at low revs and a bit more pedal so reinstalled them and found it ran much better.
I think the best way on the later engines would be to remove them along with the dpf and have remap
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      09-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #40
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To an extent I agree with the above. Almost certainly the glow plugs will be shot and the swirl vanes will be leaking diesel. When you take the inlet manifold off to correct these issues it is a ten minute job to fit the blanks. The question is do you risk not doing so?
My personal experience is there was degradation in performance without them which I later regained by removing the dpf. I have seen others reporting increased performance/economy without the vanes but this was not my experience.
As for flap failure on e90 six pot it probably happens as no one seems to be quite sure what size they have in the manifold. The smaller spindles had issues for sure. Mine were 32mm but has anyone found the 22s in an e90?
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      09-10-2012, 01:44 PM   #41
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So the diagnosis was correct about the "swirl flap actuator" being the problem. The SA says their technician found "30 fault triggers" but since I'm under "Coverage One" they need to bring in an adjuster. I told the SA "why even bother because it will be covered?" and he agreed but said it's "protocol" for them. Also mentioned parts might be "gummed" up in the air intake manifold and it might have to be replaced.

Apparently the adjuster takes 24-48 hours to show up so I'm in the process of getting a loaner.

EDIT: Turns out they will replace my air intake manifold.
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      09-20-2012, 03:50 AM   #42
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Will try to cut a long story short.... Have a 2007, 335d M Sport touring. Recently had a brake fluid service at Sytner Chigwell plus their '2012 health check' offer for 20 pound 12 pence, they noticed an oil leak under the gearbox sump pan. They diagnosed this as a gearbox oil leak due to a warped pan and quoted me over 700 quid to replace the pan, refill the oil at 20 quid a litre (which apparently never needs to be replaced which i found out afterwards), cost to fit plus vat. I wanted a 2nd opinion so took it to a local Beemer indy specialist, put it up in the air and noticed straight away that it was an engine oil leak (black oil) and not gearbox oil (brown). Took them a few hours to find the leak as it was coming from the engine somewhere and running down onto the gearbox sump, hence it looked like a box issue. Eventually noticed oil coming out from the swirl flaps after having to remove the inlet manifold etc. Said it was a common fault and suggested to put blanking plates in place. Cleaned it all up, test drove a few miles and no more leaks. Cost me 280 quid. Would have been cheaper but it took them a while to find the cause of the leak, as the plates are only a tenner each and needed 6.

Never going to Sytner again and will certainly be sending them a sh1tty letter/email sometime very soon.

Recommend Highams Park Motor company in Chingford London E4, very good techs and seem very trustworthy.
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      09-20-2012, 08:58 AM   #43
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you have to watch out for the main agents, I had something similar in January this year, I had fully serviced the car myself 2 month earlier, the car went in for brake fluid change, when it was finished the service manager said, by the way, you have an oil leak on the autobox and its the seal at the rear, cost 475 ish to investigate and rectify unless we find anything else wrong of course.
I went home and stuck it on axle stands and removed all the plastic closures underneath and turned out to be where i had cleaned and washed the oil off the side of the engine when checking the swirl flap condition, black oil, not red tranmission fluid!
7 months down the road no leaks and still drives just like a new one!
These main agents must be thinking along the lines that customers are numpties and know nothing about cars at all, of course some have no idea, but its the old scaremongering trick and many have no choice but to believe them, there must hundreds of owners who have paid out for problems that just dont exist.
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      09-21-2012, 10:53 AM   #44
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my 35d now has blanks , it's not a bad idea to do , do discernible difference power performance or mpg.. but with added peace of mind.

It's also not a bad idea to have the manifold seals changed while the job is done.
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