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      07-29-2011, 05:16 AM   #23
jabroni80
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Originally Posted by MEGA View Post
How so?

There's no driver aids whatsoever. No TCS, No ABS. It's actually made it 20 times MORE involved for the driver than even 10 years ago. You just need to see Schumi attempting to adapt to all the buttons he has to push now to see that... changing wing angle, brake bias, engine map all on the fly multiple times per lap whilst travelling in excess of 200 mph for 90mins. My head can't even compute that level of neurone activity to be honest.. Which is why most races are won or lost now on concentration issues / driver error rather than reliability as it used to be (again I'm thinking towards the end of the schumi era.. IE when the McLaren was consistently faster than the ferarri but would explode and throw hakkinen into a wall for no reason rather than finish the race)

I think most people swho say F1 is uninvolved or boring are those who don't actually bother giving it a chance. It's like a soap opera though a little bit: You need to stick with it and understand how the team and driver dynamics is changing through the course of a season.. Otherwise if you dip in for half a race twice a season of course you won't enjoy it so much, non?

There is of course (not that I'm suggesting you are one of them) also the kind of participant that only watches racing to see accidents.. So that rules F1 out for more and more people due to increased reliability and the strictest marshalling and enforcement of penalties that I remember.
+1 Couldn't have put it better myself!

I understand how people harp back to the senna era and quite right the man was a genius.

As Mega posted the sport has become so technically advanced you've got to admire these guys for what they do over 90mins.

As for crashes, the sport couldn't have carried on the way it had after Sennas death. Safety must be paramount when your traveling at speeds in excess of 150 mph. Don't think Moss should ever argue the sports too safe now.

If you want crashes watch the wrc kubica has first hand experience of this!
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      07-29-2011, 05:18 AM   #24
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Either way. This is an evolution of the topic.

The fact is News Corp are cants and this decision is terrible for everyone but Ecclestone's super model wife when she inherits his billions.

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      07-29-2011, 05:18 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by jabroni80 View Post
Fair enough. Honestly tho mate watch Hungary on Sunday. If the mclaren and ferrari are as competitive as last week should be a good race.
Hopefully we get a Hamilton alonso rematch and Hamilton can make alonso look stupid again. Lewis is an absolute genius of a driver. ..Imagine him in a red bull.
Does not work quite like that dude. The RB is designed around it's drivers. Hamilton may not gel with it like Vettel prob wouldn't the Mac unless designed for them.

Button struggles cuz the car is designed around Hamilton.

Hamilton drove very well in Germany. He also has driven like a tool this year at times.
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      07-29-2011, 05:20 AM   #26
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Does not work quite like that dude. The RB is designed around it's drivers. Hamilton may not gel with it like Vettel prob wouldn't the Mac unless designed for them.

Button struggles cuz the car is designed around Hamilton.

Hamilton drove very well in Germany. He also has driven like a tool this year at times.
Yes. Two races in a row or he'd be 30 points closer to Vettel.
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      07-29-2011, 05:44 AM   #27
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I get Sky Sports 1, 2, and 3 on Virgin media for 19 per month so I don't know where your 30 comes from Mega.

The BBC had exclusive coverage until 2013 but have often been criticised for paying way too much for it so going down to half the races from 2012 means they have got some money back, clearly.

But it does mean that, for the first time, the Formula 1 season will not be entirely available on free to air TV and that is diabolical. I thought F1 was one of the ring fenced activities that had to be available on free to air television. On the other hand, Sky has over 10 million subscribers so no longer does a small minority get to see the races.

I hate that Sky charges for you to watch programmes that, previously, were available on free to air TV and then sticks the knife in by having even longer and more banal advertising as well. They make money twice! I can't stand to watch a programme on Sky 1 or 2 live, I always record it so I can zip through the brain wash tedium.

Oh, and a buck says there will be adverts during the race, after all, ITV got away with it.
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      07-29-2011, 06:01 AM   #28
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I detest the License fee so all this talk about free to air is complete bollox imho.

Not that bothered that SKY have it cause I pay them for the Premier league so another one of my fave sports only adds VFM to my SKY Sub assuming prices don't go up of course.

Someone has to pay F1 for coverage, so either it is ITV with loads of commercials, BBC with INCREASED License fees to pay for it in the first place or proper PPV subs.

Anyone remember the F1 digital channel a few years back btw.
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      07-29-2011, 06:21 AM   #29
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Does not work quite like that dude. The RB is designed around it's drivers. Hamilton may not gel with it like Vettel prob wouldn't the Mac unless designed for them.

Button struggles cuz the car is designed around Hamilton.

Hamilton drove very well in Germany. He also has driven like a tool this year at times.
Yeah I know what you mean mate but i meant him racing for rb as a driver with that package around him.....he'd be awesome.
Reason the Mclarens designed round Hamilton is simply because he's a better driver than Button. Buttons a good number 2 driver. I agree Hamiltons made some crazy moves this season but if you take that out of his driving style he wouldn't be half the driver he is. I love his arrogance and do or die driving style... there isn't enough drivers like him in the championship. Kobyashi is another guy who I admire when he's cars setup well these guys make the sport what it is.

Take these guys out of the sport and creepy could have a point about boring.

As for going off subject, maybe we should start an F1 thread on here for debate after race weekend ....seems like there's enough interest?
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      07-29-2011, 06:26 AM   #30
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Don't get me wrong, I watch plenty of motorsport (WRC, BTCC, WTCC etc), I have just found F1 to be a little dull since Schumacher started dominating, maybe thats what turned me off
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      07-29-2011, 06:40 AM   #31
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I'm devastated, watched f1 with my dad for as long as I can remember always on bbc or itv.

I thought the move to 4 cylinder engines in 2012/13 was bad enough, now this. Gutted and there is no way I'm paying for that shitty sky subscription. Wasting a life watching bullshit programs full of adverts.
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      07-29-2011, 08:52 AM   #32
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I detest the License fee so all this talk about free to air is complete bollox imho.

Not that bothered that SKY have it cause I pay them for the Premier league so another one of my fave sports only adds VFM to my SKY Sub assuming prices don't go up of course.

Someone has to pay F1 for coverage, so either it is ITV with loads of commercials, BBC with INCREASED License fees to pay for it in the first place or proper PPV subs.

Anyone remember the F1 digital channel a few years back btw.
So you are happy to pay 5 times as much as the license fee and be bombarded by the worse sort of chavvy advertisements?

Thank god for the BBC.

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      07-29-2011, 08:55 AM   #33
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Don't get me wrong, I watch plenty of motorsport (WRC, BTCC, WTCC etc), I have just found F1 to be a little dull since Schumacher started dominating, maybe thats what turned me off
Give it another bash. It did get very boring during schumachers domination years but its totally different now. Been watching it again since 2006 and never missed a race or qly. Look how many world champions there's been in the last few years.

Folks I know its Shit moving to sky but there's ways round giving Murdoch your money. Half the races are still on the bbc and for the rest go for a few Sunday afternoon pints in your local. I realise watching it in a pub the landlord pays a subscription but they always would have anyway.

Gives you an excuse to get away from the missus for a few hours.....every cloud has a silver lining
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      07-29-2011, 08:57 AM   #34
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So you are happy to pay 10 times as much as the license fee and be bombarded by the worse sort of chavvy advertisements?

Thank god for the BBC.
Hi mate

Not happy just been a realist mate. If I did not have to pay 150 quid a year for a service I hardly use and be able to put that towards my SKY subs then even better I say.

It IS MY CHOICE to pay SKY money but I have NO CHOICE when it comes the BBC. Who said Communism is dead. Obviously I am not dancing around in joy giving SKY so much a month BUT when ITV Digital went belly up it was Crown Castle who set Freeview up not JUST Auntie Beeb. Who are they you ask? Er BBC and SKY. Boom boom.

Hey ho.
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      07-29-2011, 09:07 AM   #35
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Hi mate

Not happy just been a realist mate. If I did not have to pay 150 quid a year for a service I hardly use and be able to put that towards my SKY subs then even better I say.

It IS MY CHOICE to pay SKY money but I have NO CHOICE when it comes the BBC. Who said Communism is dead. Obviously I am not dancing around in joy giving SKY so much a month BUT when ITV Digital went belly up it was Crown Castle who set Freeview up not JUST Auntie Beeb. Who are they you ask? Er BBC and SKY. Boom boom.

Hey ho.
I think that I prefer the old "Communist" system where I paid my license fee and ALL the top sporting events were free. Funny how having "more choice" and "competition" usually means fleecing the consumer. Just look at our utility bills!

Long live the revolution!
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      07-29-2011, 09:14 AM   #36
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Same here, todays F1 is so sterile, the technology (which I admire greatly BTW) has taken the interaction of the driver out, to a large extent.

Races are now won/lost on a wheel nut falling off or staying out with a particular set of tyre for two laps too many.
Agree it is sterile.
Having recently watched Senna the documentary, the sigh of the man on the ragged edge changing gears manually, is just awesome.
But do you really want to see an F1 driver die on the track again?

Although the race has alot to do with the driver still. There is no room for them to be heros anymore though. Only a massive margin for them to cock up.
Have you seen the incar footage recently, they are fiddling with settings after almost every corner.
Alot of the time this gets lost as the commentators focus on what they think is important and have info about, ie tires and the degradation. Also dont think the tire supplier would be happy if they didnt mention it every 10 seconds.

I wish the GT4 races where better televised. Thats real racing, all cars different yet equalised. Pure driver skill
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      07-29-2011, 09:18 AM   #37
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Oh an Fuck sky one.

Lewis Hamilton racing for a british team living in swizerland should pay the money the sport puts in his pocket to the BBC to fund the televising of the races.

Oh and while on the topic.
We need a London F1
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      07-29-2011, 09:31 AM   #38
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I think that I prefer the old "Communist" system where I paid my license fee and ALL the top sporting events were free. Funny how having "more choice" and "competition" usually means fleecing the consumer. Just look at our utility bills!

Long live the revolution!
Blame the sporting bodies who demand the fees then mate and not the broadcasters who have to pass on the costs as such.

Only have my TV from SKY would not give them any more money for other services so I am not exactly a SKY fanboy but I do like my Sport and willing to pay for what I want to watch. The BBC just cannot compete any more and thus they should just give in and pack up and let me be 150 odd better off. Offer themselves as a 'premium' sub service to those who STILL value them cause I don't anymore.

Not a revolution as such more of an evolution in a way. Not great but hey it's the way it is nowadays.
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      07-29-2011, 09:36 AM   #39
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Considering that you pay twice as much for commercial terrestrial TV as you do the BBC license fee (the ads have to be paid for and it sure as hell isn't the advertiser but Joe Punter, reflected in the selling price), and considering that Joe Punter pays through his purchases for products advertised on Sky, even if he doesn't have Sky, and then Sky charge you another massive slab on top of that, the BBC is an absolute bargain!

No effing interminable adverts every eight minutes, a country wide network of local and national radio stations, a brilliant web site, the red button, iPlayer, The World Service, two HD channels and two non-HD. The BBC offers a lot wider variety of services than anyone else.

I just wish their programming would improve and for people to stop saying that commercial terrestrial TV is "free". It isn't.
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      07-29-2011, 09:42 AM   #40
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Here's an example my dad has freesat, in theory he could have TOTALLY FREE TO AIR TV if the BBC was a PPV service, as then the ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 channels would at least be some of the commercial stations that are FTA not taking into account the current freesat line up. End of. That to me is a proper definition of Free To Air TV. Whether it is showing Sporting events or not. Yet cause the BBC channels are on there then he has to buy a TV License.

TV Licenses are like the old Communist party membership books, every home has to have one.
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      07-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #41
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Blame the sporting bodies who demand the fees then mate and not the broadcasters who have to pass on the costs as such.

Only have my TV from SKY would not give them any more money for other services so I am not exactly a SKY fanboy but I do like my Sport and willing to pay for what I want to watch. The BBC just cannot compete any more and thus they just give in and pack up and let me be 150 odd better off.

Not a revolution as such more of an evolution in a way. Not great but hey it's the way it is nowadays.
I blame Sky.

In the olden days because ITV and the BBC were limited to fairly modest budgets the sporting bodies had to be happy with what they got. However because Sky could charge a subscription they could offer much more than the terrestrial channels and steal away the sport which is exactly what has happened. So now the British public are giving money to ars*holes like the Glazers! (because there was so much money swilling around foreign investors decided they wanted a slice of the action)

In the same way I now pay a company in Singapore for my tap water!!!!
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      07-29-2011, 09:50 AM   #42
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I blame Sky.

In the olden days because ITV and the BBC were limited to fairly modest budgets the sporting bodies had to be happy with what they got. However because Sky could charge a subscription they could offer much more than the terrestrial channels and steal away the sport which is exactly what has happened. So now the British public are giving money to ars*holes like the Glazers!
Yeah it is not good but my argument is about FTA TV, which at the end of the day there is not really no such thing. Actually work for an energy company and all we can do is pass on costs that the wholesale electric and gas generators/importers charge, hence why prices just go up. In a way Sporting bodies like the FIA can get away with this now, SKY can only buy so much so perhaps that is why this is a joint bid still, for all we know SKY may have 'invited' the BBC to stay on board to keep the cost down. Who knows.
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      07-29-2011, 09:58 AM   #43
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Yeah it is not good but my argument is about FTA TV, which at the end of the day there is not really no such thing. Actually work for an energy company and all we can do is pass on costs that the wholesale electric and gas generators/importers charge, hence why prices just go up. In a way Sporting bodies like the FIA can get away with this now, SKY can only buy so much so perhaps that is why this is a joint bid still, for all we know SKY may have 'invited' the BBC to stay on board to keep the cost down. Who knows.
So the problem is that there is not enough competition in the wholesale market?
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      07-29-2011, 09:58 AM   #44
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Considering that you pay twice as much for commercial terrestrial TV as you do the BBC license fee (the ads have to be paid for and it sure as hell isn't the advertiser but Joe Punter, reflected in the selling price), and considering that Joe Punter pays through his purchases for products advertised on Sky, even if he doesn't have Sky, and then Sky charge you another massive slab on top of that, the BBC is an absolute bargain!

No effing interminable adverts every eight minutes, a country wide network of local and national radio stations, a brilliant web site, the red button, iPlayer, The World Service, two HD channels and two non-HD. The BBC offers a lot wider variety of services than anyone else.

I just wish their programming would improve and for people to stop saying that commercial terrestrial TV is "free". It isn't.

So my TV License fee pays ITV and Channel 5 also? Know that Channel 4 got government funding for a while but not sure that is the case now.

BBC to me just offer Labour spin bias news, totally anti Man Utd in Sports coverage (Hansen and Lawro help with that) and celebrate a world radio service that I cannot listen too cause I live in the UK. Their TV BBC World news service is also rubbish compared to SKY News international service also and most hotels show this now instead. Their programs are mostly funded by outside firms and watching repeats of Top Gear on Dave proves that I could watch BBC programs and put up with ads now and then.

Ironically I pay my fee quarterly just in case if it goes then I want have to wait for too much of a rebate, so they actually get more money out of me via that payment method.
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