E90Post
 


GetBMWParts
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > 335i limp mode party at the track



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-25-2011, 10:37 PM   #595
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
* The oil temperatures will follow closely the coolant temperatures. That Stett Oil cooler with the 180F thermostat is just a temporary patch. Once the coolant temps get up to 240, there is no way to keep the oil temps at 180F.

* It will be extremely beneficial for track people to cool off their engines by running their cars with AC on. Not only this will circulate the oil through the oil cooler, thus cooling it, but it will drop BOTH the coolant and oil temps to 180-190F.

* If we want to improve our cars to last longer in the track, we should be concentrating on better radiators, cooling fans and airflow to the radiators. I think that going down the path of improving oil cooling is not beneficial unless your car did not come with stock oil cooler.


If someone is willing to test my theory, that would be awesome. Do a track day with your AC on, windows closed and blower fan on speed 4 or higher. You will be amazed.
couple key things to note.

1. In this thread we go by centigrade when it comes to coolant temps. So your seeing 110-115C in stop and go? That's not too abnormal. Most of us on this thread will probably see 98C tops. That's because we are running a summer coolant mix, while you're stock. You've also probably never used a cooling system flush, like prestone, or peak's formula, so your radiator has all sorts of hot spots, causing your high temps.

2. Your coolant and maybe oil is dropping, when you turn on your AC, because of the same exact reason why it drops when you turn on your heater. When you turn on, either the AC or heater, coolant flows through the heating core located inside your dashboard. A fan then blows on it. Believe it or not, with the dial at say 70F, weather you turn on the heater or AC, coolant flows through the heating core. Do some research if you doubt me, and learn how the heater/AC works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heater_core

Its still 10x's better to turn on your heater at the track, not the AC. Most of us know this. The AC will turn on the compressor, and add parasitic power loss to your car.

3. Please don't take this the wrong way, cuz you're a bit of a hot head online, but NOTHING you can do to your car, will ever even come close to simulating the type of heat stress you put a car through on the track. NOTHING. Not repeated acceleration runs, stop and go in 115F,....Nothing! So thanks for your contribution, but please take your car to the track above 80F, to understand what we are dealing with.

Last edited by Turkeybaster115; 07-25-2011 at 10:42 PM.
Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 09:47 AM   #596
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
 
vasillalov's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 4,135
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 335i E90  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
couple key things to note.

1. In this thread we go by centigrade when it comes to coolant temps. So your seeing 110-115C in stop and go? That's not too abnormal. Most of us on this thread will probably see 98C tops. That's because we are running a summer coolant mix, while you're stock. You've also probably never used a cooling system flush, like prestone, or peak's formula, so your radiator has all sorts of hot spots, causing your high temps.
Sorry for the confusion. My oil temperature gauge is in F, we live in America, so naturally, I thought I'd post my findings in F. I am from Europe and while F is confusing as hell to me, I have learned to deal with both systems. My P3 gauge allows me to switch between English and Metric units for most of the values it gets from the CAN bus so I should be able to provide data points in Centigrade. Agreed, I've never done a cooling system flush.

Quote:
2. Your coolant and maybe oil is dropping, when you turn on your AC, because of the same exact reason why it drops when you turn on your heater. When you turn on, either the AC or heater, coolant flows through the heating core located inside your dashboard. A fan then blows on it. Believe it or not, with the dial at say 70F, weather you turn on the heater or AC, coolant flows through the heating core. Do some research if you doubt me, and learn how the heater/AC works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heater_core

Its still 10x's better to turn on your heater at the track, not the AC. Most of us know this. The AC will turn on the compressor, and add parasitic power loss to your car.
.

There is no need to educate me how the heater core works. I have pretty strong mechanical and technical background and I've had the chance to replace 2 heater cores on two different cars so far. I am also well aware of the parasitic power loss you get when the AC is turned on. When I suggested this as an option I was thinking that some people might be able to actually prefer to FINISH a track session with a car which has a bit less power than actually limping to the pits after a few hot laps. I also thought that would be a great way to cool the car down AFTER your track sessions were over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
3. Please don't take this the wrong way, cuz you're a bit of a hot head online, but NOTHING you can do to your car, will ever even come close to simulating the type of heat stress you put a car through on the track. NOTHING. Not repeated acceleration runs, stop and go in 115F,....Nothing! So thanks for your contribution, but please take your car to the track above 80F, to understand what we are dealing with.
Agreed. I am often strongly opinionated about things and I have low tolerance for bull crap. So yeah, I might come as a hot head online. I do however agree with you that city, street and highway driving does not compare at all to track events. It was not my intention to present it this way and if it was perceived this way, then I apologize.

Like I said before, I only wanted to contribute an observation that really stood out to me, that's all. I don't think anyone will be hurt by reading a few extra paragraphs or even trying my suggestions.

Finally, while I don't have much track experience just yet, I am trying to get as much seat time as possible. At the moment, the car that I have is too much of a car for my skills as a driver, so I am currently not able to push it to the limit. But when that happens, I will be most definitely concentrating on proper radiator cooling as I do believe that coolant temperatures govern the oil temperatures. Why else do you think the PPK has an extra radiator?

Take care and good luck on the track.
__________________
Equal Opportunity Harasser!
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine
vasillalov is offline   Bulgaria
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 09:50 AM   #597
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
 
vasillalov's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 4,135
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 335i E90  [4.00]
Turkey,

Where do you go on track events in IL? The Autobahn Race Track?
__________________
Equal Opportunity Harasser!
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine
vasillalov is offline   Bulgaria
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 10:39 AM   #598
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Turkey,

Where do you go on track events in IL? The Autobahn Race Track?
I've been to the Autobahn, and have done North, South, and Full course. I've also been to road america, and will be there again in a few days. I might try blackhawk farms by the end of this year.
Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 10:58 AM   #599
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
There is no need to educate me how the heater core works.
No problem, as long as you get my point, which is that its the Heating core that's causing the coolant temp drop, not any other AC component. Which is why most of us run the heater on full blast at the track. I usually turn on the air, then press the * button to make sure the compressor is off, then crank the heater up to 84 degrees, and turn the fan on to the highest setting. It isn't uncomfortable at all, as you run at the track with both windows down, so you can give hand signals. Leaving the compressor on, and turning the temp dial down to 60 something degrees, and winding up the windows, won't yield half as much coolant temp decreases as running the heater the way i described earlier. Also note that the temp drop achieved with the heater on, full blast, is only temporary. It helps, but not as much as you think. At the track, the car is constantly adding an A$$ load of heat into the system, so your running against the inevitable. Usually with the heater on, you'll drop from 98C coolant temps to 93C instantly, but however, it will creep back up after about 2 laps.

The biggest factor at the track is ambient temps. Anything over 75 degrees with our car, is very difficult. at 50 degrees, you might not even need an oil cooler!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Finally, while I don't have much track experience just yet, I am trying to get as much seat time as possible. At the moment, the car that I have is too much of a car for my skills as a driver, so I am currently not able to push it to the limit.
Come on down to the track anyways! as a novice, you can just get driven in your car, by an instructor. It will really be a great experience for you, and you will get to see how awesome the E90's are! Nothing like the way the G forces hit you in a turn, when a pro is driving your car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
But when that happens, I will be most definitely concentrating on proper radiator cooling as I do believe that coolant temperatures govern the oil temperatures. Why else do you think the PPK has an extra radiator?
Take care and good luck on the track.
You already use an extra radiator when you turn on your heater. Complete with a fan blowing on it. That tiny 0.5Liter radiator in the PPK isn't doing as much as you think. Remember, its not the radiator capacity, its the percentage of coolant (relative to water) in it that matters. With stock 50/50 coolant/water mixture, even the 1M oil temps have been going over well over 270 degrees at the track (At 270F, our cars loose power) when ambient temps are over 75F. A car with just a 2Liter radiator but distilled water (or <30% coolant) + water wetter will be 3X cooler at the track than a car with a 3Liter radiator and 50/50 coolant/water mix.

Also remember that the PPK has a larger fan + air scoops for both the oil and coolant coolers, and a reprogrammed computer which runs the water pump and fan much longer and harder than stock. To handle this additional electrical power demand, it has a larger, or additional battery. So don't expect the same results with just the additional radiator.

Last edited by Turkeybaster115; 07-26-2011 at 11:13 AM.
Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 11:48 AM   #600
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
 
vasillalov's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 4,135
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 335i E90  [4.00]
^^

Cool cool.

I don't think I'll be getting the PPK kit though. There is an Australian company that makes top-notch aftermarket radiators for our cars and I am pretty sure others will follow shortly. When the time comes, I'll probably endup with an aftermarket front bumper as well to maximize airflow.
__________________
Equal Opportunity Harasser!
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine
vasillalov is offline   Bulgaria
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 12:07 PM   #601
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

This isn't necessarily directed @ vasilov, but I Just wanted to add that the temp dial controls coolant flow into the heater core. 60F closed 84F maximum flow.
Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 02:41 PM   #602
DrivinMissDaisy
Lieutenant
 
DrivinMissDaisy's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 Kia Soul !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tehachapi, CA

Posts: 492
iTrader: (3)

So after reading this, I have come to conclusion I am screwed at the track. I have an auto and outside temps will be mid 90's to low 100's. Looking to upgrade my oil cooler and drain the coolant to get water and water wetter in there. Any thing else you can think of that won't cost a couple thousand $?
DrivinMissDaisy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 03:23 PM   #603
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 982
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivinMissDaisy View Post
So after reading this, I have come to conclusion I am screwed at the track. I have an auto and outside temps will be mid 90's to low 100's. Looking to upgrade my oil cooler and drain the coolant to get water and water wetter in there. Any thing else you can think of that won't cost a couple thousand $?
Well this depends on how hard the car is pushed but you are kind of right.

All over this thread we talk about what really works and you seem to know what's possible.

I would get a Stett dual or ER dual oil cooler if I were you. You could add a transmission cooler that was more stout than the stock one. You would want a savvy race shop to install that for you so it's not in the way of anything. I would try it on top of the intercooler.

You could get a new intercooler too.

Good luck.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 05:23 PM   #604
JunkStory
Major
 
Drives: naked.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 98230

Posts: 1,177
iTrader: (3)

Anyone tried removing the engine cover and the insulator under the hood to see if that helps?
JunkStory is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 05:57 PM   #605
DrivinMissDaisy
Lieutenant
 
DrivinMissDaisy's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 Kia Soul !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tehachapi, CA

Posts: 492
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
Well this depends on how hard the car is pushed but you are kind of right.

All over this thread we talk about what really works and you seem to know what's possible.

I would get a Stett dual or ER dual oil cooler if I were you. You could add a transmission cooler that was more stout than the stock one. You would want a savvy race shop to install that for you so it's not in the way of anything. I would try it on top of the intercooler.

You could get a new intercooler too.

Good luck.
Just going around my local canyons I hit 270, in about 5 minutes, with the stock cooler and it was only 85 degrees out.

I am picking up a new used VR Core and building my own hoses, so that will save me almost $400 over a Stett stage 2. As far as a second one, I will have to fabrocate a bracket to work, not enough time or money for that right now. Tranny cooler, probably look at doing that over the winter.

Intercooler, got to solve limp mode before I worry about cooling the air for power.
DrivinMissDaisy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 06:12 PM   #606
jbass524
Captain
 
Drives: 1995 E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norcal

Posts: 982
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivinMissDaisy View Post
Intercooler, got to solve limp mode before I worry about cooling the air for power.
I like your attitude: make it reliable before making it faster.

The VK is ok. It's all about getting air to it though. If you keep the stock ducting you may notice only a light advantage.
jbass524 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 06:31 PM   #607
DrivinMissDaisy
Lieutenant
 
DrivinMissDaisy's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 Kia Soul !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tehachapi, CA

Posts: 492
iTrader: (3)

I have to see what it looks like in there once i tear it all apart. Also I am going to take the foglight light out, to get more air in for the track. I would love an M3 bumper, but money money money.
DrivinMissDaisy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 07:25 PM   #608
mid-corner fun
Major
 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NE

Posts: 1,394
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
Well this depends on how hard the car is pushed but you are kind of right.

All over this thread we talk about what really works and you seem to know what's possible.

I would get a Stett dual or ER dual oil cooler if I were you. You could add a transmission cooler that was more stout than the stock one. You would want a savvy race shop to install that for you so it's not in the way of anything. I would try it on top of the intercooler.

You could get a new intercooler too.

Good luck.
+1

If you're a beginner at the track or willing to drive at 8/10s you can run all day long with no issues at 85-90F weather. At 100F+, sorry, game over.

Other than that in order of cost:

1. heater on. FREE

2. distilled water + water wetter for the radiator will yield immediate results for low cost. (maybe an hour of labor to drain/fill the radiator at an indy?).

3. OC next (~$800-$1000)

4. FMIC last (no idea on trasmission cooler cost, it's a custom item)

With #2,3 & 4 and 92F ambient I had my AT finish 4 out of 5 25-min advanced sessions a couple of weeks ago, which I consider more than acceptable.
mid-corner fun is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2011, 07:30 PM   #609
mid-corner fun
Major
 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NE

Posts: 1,394
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivinMissDaisy View Post

I am picking up a new used VR Core and building my own hoses, so that will save me almost $400 over a Stett stage 2. As far as a second one, I will have to fabrocate a bracket to work, not enough time or money for that right now. Tranny cooler, probably look at doing that over the winter.
Good stuff, a single larger OC core may be sufficient (+ increased airflow to the OC), ala STETT. Try that, it may be more than enough and will save the spot on the driver side for the secondary radiator
mid-corner fun is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-28-2011, 11:25 PM   #610
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

Just wanted to add this prestone video showing a proper cooling system flush with their radiator cleaner product.

Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2011, 08:49 PM   #611
DrivinMissDaisy
Lieutenant
 
DrivinMissDaisy's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 Kia Soul !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tehachapi, CA

Posts: 492
iTrader: (3)

Hopefully I am good for next weekend. I installed a VK oil cooler, drained my coolant and replace with water and watter wetter, and replaced the oil with 10w-40. I removed the stock air dam for the cooler and the air dam for the brakes. I will also be removing fog light this week to get even more air. Temps will be mid to upper 90's so hopefully everything goes good.

In the local canyon and my car would hit 270 half way through the canyon with the stock setup. Today I went through it twice pushing the car even harder and only got it to 255. I know it is not the same, but there is a difference between the setups. Temps where both around 85.

I will post up next weekend and let you know if it worked.
DrivinMissDaisy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2011, 09:45 PM   #612
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

Was at Road America yesterday, and I did 4x30 min sessions. Had the same setup as last time, except for the Juice box plus, new vanos exhaust solenoid, and 1 more additional bottle of Gunk Liquid Kool (Water wetter).

Ambient temps: 72-82F
Oil temps after 3 laps: 270F
water temps: 90-114C
lap times: 3mins

After a nice solid lap, I would throw an engine malfunction. Turned out to be Code: 30FF, repeatedly. Since I've never had a boost leak, I strongly suspect that the latest software needs the solenoid by pass, even with JB+ @ 50%. The good news, and MAIN thing I have to add to our never ending lovely thread, is that the Power didn't drop off after the code!!! In the past, as we've all experienced, once you throw a code and see that engine malfunction light, you've got like about 30% power left. However, with JB+, there is like about 94-100% power left! I mean you don't even feel it, and I was able to lay down the hurt the whole session.

This is quite a break through, cuz I wasn't expecting it. So for those of you who have other tunes, and throw codes, or even if you are stock, and you don't want the boost turned down by the ECU when you throw a code at the track, install JB+!
Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2011, 09:37 AM   #613
mid-corner fun
Major
 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NE

Posts: 1,394
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
Was at Road America yesterday, and I did 4x30 min sessions. Had the same setup as last time, except for the Juice box plus, new vanos exhaust solenoid, and 1 more additional bottle of Gunk Liquid Kool (Water wetter).

Ambient temps: 72-82F
Oil temps after 3 laps: 270F
water temps: 90-114C
lap times: 3mins

After a nice solid lap, I would throw an engine malfunction. Turned out to be Code: 30FF, repeatedly. Since I've never had a boost leak, I strongly suspect that the latest software needs the solenoid by pass, even with JB+ @ 50%. The good news, and MAIN thing I have to add to our never ending lovely thread, is that the Power didn't drop off after the code!!! In the past, as we've all experienced, once you throw a code and see that engine malfunction light, you've got like about 30% power left. However, with JB+, there is like about 94-100% power left! I mean you don't even feel it, and I was able to lay down the hurt the whole session.

This is quite a break through, cuz I wasn't expecting it. So for those of you who have other tunes, and throw codes, or even if you are stock, and you don't want the boost turned down by the ECU when you throw a code at the track, install JB+!
Of course, who else can come up with another unique track situation
Since you haven't mentioned 30FF before, it's fair to assume it's specifically tied to your JB+ implementation. Glad to see you didn't lose power, very odd though. Did you by any chance try to dial-it down and see if 30FF reoccurs?

My next event is in Sep but the car is running like crap after the last limp mode, getting several parts replaced before I can go out there again.

Nice ambient temps by the way for August!
mid-corner fun is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2011, 02:50 PM   #614
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
Of course, who else can come up with another unique track situation
Since you haven't mentioned 30FF before, it's fair to assume it's specifically tied to your JB+ implementation. Glad to see you didn't lose power, very odd though. Did you by any chance try to dial-it down and see if 30FF reoccurs?

My next event is in Sep but the car is running like crap after the last limp mode, getting several parts replaced before I can go out there again.

Nice ambient temps by the way for August!
The 30FF is happening because I did not do the solenoid bypass. In the old software you could go as much as 50% before the ecu got wise. With this latest software (ISTA version 32.2) it seems to recognize it, even at the default setting. The solenoid bypass is an easy mod. JB+/SSTT is really good for you if you in case you start throwing codes, and are ok on oil/coolant temps, and want to finish the sessions without power loss. I think you can easily slap it on top of any other tune you have.

What parts are you getting replaced?
Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2011, 07:46 PM   #615
mid-corner fun
Major
 
Drives: e92
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NE

Posts: 1,394
iTrader: (3)

HPFP, o2 sensor, DMTL pump, fuel sensor, all plugs and 2 injectors, so far. And the car still runs like crap.

Typically I've had one major thing fail at a time but the last scan read like a shopping list, cyl 5/6 misfires, HPFP errors, intake valve errors etc. What bugs me is that the original HPFP was flawless for 40,000 miles but I let them replace it as part of the recall, have had 2 pumps fail on me since then.

Gearing up for a Sep and an Oct event and I'm done for the year. Thinking of coming back to the track next year or at most the year after, with a dedicated track car. Just need to mentally reconcile what I can afford vs. what I want for a track car. Either way, no more 335i upgrades.
mid-corner fun is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-09-2011, 09:09 PM   #616
Turkeybaster115
Banned
 
Drives: 335I
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois

Posts: 1,544
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
HPFP, o2 sensor, DMTL pump, fuel sensor, all plugs and 2 injectors, so far. And the car still runs like crap.

Typically I've had one major thing fail at a time but the last scan read like a shopping list, cyl 5/6 misfires, HPFP errors, intake valve errors etc. What bugs me is that the original HPFP was flawless for 40,000 miles but I let them replace it as part of the recall, have had 2 pumps fail on me since then.

Gearing up for a Sep and an Oct event and I'm done for the year. Thinking of coming back to the track next year or at most the year after, with a dedicated track car. Just need to mentally reconcile what I can afford vs. what I want for a track car. Either way, no more 335i upgrades.
PeterM1, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. Some of our cars, are code throwing queens, from hell. I don't mean to be a dick, but I feel that your procede tune may have caused those problems. Procede, and JB4 are know to cause a lot of those issues.

I can't lie though, because right now I'm going back and forth between staying with my car, and ditching it for an E46 M3.
Turkeybaster115 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:22 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST