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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > HPDE Track Setup Thread



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      09-04-2011, 09:11 AM   #1
UltraRacer13
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HPDE Track Setup Thread

I am taking PeterM1's advice and starting a thread to cover setups related to HPDE's. Hopefully we can learn from each other to dial in a better track day.

Feel free to comment on suspension, tires, tunes, even track monitoring such as video and tracking devices.

I run the following and have yet to dial it in properly.

AST 4100's I usually set fronts to 6/12 and R 8/12.
Vorshlag Camber plates
Stett Stg 2 OC
Cobb AP
staggered Nitto Invo's setup on 19s. 235/35 265/30.

- Still working on getting the proper setup. I will be going to Cobb soon to get a track setup dialed in here.

Overall, I like the setup, $ permitting, I would go Apex arc-8 square all around for track only.

I need more time to get my setup dialed in, any input on the AST's or Vorshlags would be appreciated.

Here is the post by Terry Fair (Vorshlag) explaining how to align the car so that you can adjust your own camber plates at the track, and then return the car to its street setup-
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ight=alignment

AST Tuning Guide
http://www.vorshlag.com/documents/Tuning_AST_Shocks.pdf

Last edited by UltraRacer13; 09-04-2011 at 12:54 PM.
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      09-04-2011, 09:20 AM   #2
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^^+1 this thread needs a sticky. My set up

Staggered 19 inch VMR M3 CSL replica's
235/35/19 & 275/30/19 General Exclaim UHP- Old General GMAX AS03- New
OEM sport springs, with Koni Yellow Shocks(FR-1/2 turn from full soft, R-3/4 turn from full soft)
Zimmerman Xdrilled Rotors w/ Textar Pads.
AR desin & OEM oil cooler Retrofit
Juice Box Plus (50%) w/Solenoid Bypass
SUper Blue Brake Fluid
Pentosin Power steering fluid
Pentosin ATF
Total Auto Supra Coolant
Gunk Liquid Cool Water Wetter
Royal Purple 75W 90 rear diff
Pentosin 5W30/Total 10W50/Mobil1 0W40
Peake Research Tool R5/FCX3

Wish list:
1. Wavetrack LSD
2. M3 suspension components
3. 335is fan, and additional radiator
4. GIAC Stage 2
5. AR design catted downpipes
6. FMIC

Last edited by Turkeybaster115; 09-29-2011 at 12:31 AM.
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      09-04-2011, 10:25 AM   #3
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Quaife LSD
ETS FMIC
Dunlop Direzzas 245/40/17 Square on Kosei K1s
M3 control arms
M3 front & rear sway bars
Brakeperformance (front)/Centric (rear) rotors
PFC01 & DTC70 (front - alternative between events)/HPS (rear) pads
ECS SS lines
Motul RBF660
STETT stage 2 oil cooler
distilled water/Mocool in radiator

Recording/Data Acquisition:
trackmaster on Android phone
Qstarz 818XT bluetooth GPS
GoPro camera
Dashware for data/video integration


wishlist:
1. A dedicated track car (working on it...)

Last edited by mid-corner fun; 09-06-2011 at 11:33 AM.
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      09-04-2011, 06:07 PM   #4
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1. Get car corner balanced and aligned. Max out camber up front, or as much as you're comfortable with. 2.5-3.0 degree will give you a decent compromise if you drive the car on the street too, as much as 3.5 will give you a good baseline if it's primarily driven on the track. Max out camber in the rear (probably around 2 degrees). If the car's driven on the street, about 1/16" toe-in front, 1/16" toe-in rear. If the car's primarily driven on the track, 1/16" toe-out front, 1/16" toe-in rear.

2. Start from the stiffest setting available for compression and rebound, then dial back as necessary for best grip. There isn't going to be a perfect setting for every track and every situation, you'll find that once you have a good baseline you'll be moving the rebound up or down a little from track to track, and compression based on how rough the track surface is. On the West coast, Buttonwillow will definitely require a softer rebound than say, Laguna Seca.

3. RacingBrake front and rear rotors with a good track compound, like Hawk DTC-60 or better, or Cobalt XR-3 or better. Don't mix track compound with street compound.

After that, it's all about taking tire pressure and temperature readings and adjusting pressure accordingly, and adapting your driving to the natural "rate" of the car based on the above baseline rather than continue to play with "setting."

This thread will be better served if you guys include settings for specific tracks. But even then, with diverging skills and styles of driving, there's little you can really gain from knowing what someone else's setting is except to set a baseline for yourself to experiment from.
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      09-04-2011, 10:09 PM   #5
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great post hack as always. good insight
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      09-05-2011, 10:57 AM   #6
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I have this setup:

Dinan Stage 3
Stock 161 style wheels. (245/255 stagger)
M3 front control arms and tension struts
Toe front and rear: neutral
Camber F:2.0 R:1.5

I'm gonna try Hack's setup next with max camber. Also, how do you corner balance a car with no ride-hight adjustment?
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      09-05-2011, 01:25 PM   #7
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2011 BMW 335i  [4.72]
Wavetrack LSD
M3 bits/subframe bushings
M3 front & rear sway bars
Stoptech SS lines
Motul RBF600
Jb4 Stage 2
Still working off stock m-sport wheels

Wishlist:
APEX AR-C 8 with some tires, still looking for exact choice
TCKlein with Swift springs
Brembo GT bbk
Helix FMIC

Last edited by turugara; 09-22-2011 at 01:55 AM.
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      09-06-2011, 11:41 AM   #8
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Online spreadsheet

You should probably get the Google Docs spreadsheet going.

With all of this is the improvement that your setup brought. You should always do one mod at a time then go back to the same track and compare as closely as possible. Try not to do a seat of the pants assessment.

I suggest: comparative time before mod, after mod, spec miata (fastest time at that track).

The best and most effective mods are drive, square setup, camber and alignment, cooling system, corner balanced.

LSDs, more power, coilovers and swaybars can be good but I can't tell you how many people don't know how to reap the benefits of all of those because the driver hasn't been modified. I am in no way an expert but with good instruction I have in 1 day taken 2 seconds off a lap with only driver mods.
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      09-06-2011, 01:53 PM   #9
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My setup list is very short and simple.

- square 193M wheels (18x8.5)
- square 255/35 Yokohama AD08 tires
- Carbotech XP12/XP10 brake pads
- Goodridge SS brake lines
- ATE Superblue brake fluid
- Alignment: (front) -0.8 camber, zero toe; (rear) -2.0 camber, zero toe
- Everything else stock!!!
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      09-06-2011, 05:18 PM   #10
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My setup:
Diffsonline LSD
JIC Cross c/o (camber plates included - stock alignment)
UUC adjustable sways
M3 suspension bits front and rear
M3 subframe bushings
Dinan strut brace
Stoptech BBK (6-piston front, 4-piston rear)
Enkei RPF1 (18x8.5 square)
BFGoodrich R1 (245/40)
20lb Braile Battery
CF hood & CSL trunk
Rogue shifter with Jaffster shift knob
Sparco Milano 2 seats
Dinan CAI, throttle body and exhaust

Without a doubt, the suspension and brakes make the biggest difference on the track. Not even having to think about braking while on the track is such a relief. Changing to track pads literally takes 5 minutes per corner.

LSD is fantastic for balancing the car mid-corner. Higher HP cars would benefit even more as I'm only making about 270hp with my 330.

The seats - my god the seats make such a difference in feeling what the chassis is doing I can't even begin to describe it. It is mind-blowing!
I had to go with the Jaffster shift knob because I'm sitting about 2-1/2" lower in my car than with my stock sport seats. My elbow still hits the center console door (I'm going to recover it removing the foam to make it a lower profile). They are very comfortable on the street too, not being race shells and all. So, they're not the lightest seats either. The two of them net out to be 30lbs lighter than stock. They have lumbar support too.

The main reason I listed the CF hood, trunk and light weight battery is with 3/4 of a tank of gas I weighed my car. It is 3,270lbs. That means I dropped about 180lbs off my curb weight. My car feels very nimble.

R-comps are r-comps. They are the crack of tires. What else needs to be said? I added 5mph down the front straight just by adding the r-comps.
My car is setup to be very stable and doesn't do anything drastic, even if I overcook a turn.
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      09-06-2011, 11:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AW325xi View Post
My setup:
Diffsonline LSD
JIC Cross c/o (camber plates included - stock alignment)
UUC adjustable sways
M3 suspension bits front and rear
M3 subframe bushings
Dinan strut brace
Stoptech BBK (6-piston front, 4-piston rear)
Enkei RPF1 (18x8.5 square)
BFGoodrich R1 (245/40)
20lb Braile Battery
CF hood & CSL trunk
Rogue shifter with Jaffster shift knob
Sparco Milano 2 seats
Dinan CAI, throttle body and exhaust

Without a doubt, the suspension and brakes make the biggest difference on the track. Not even having to think about braking while on the track is such a relief. Changing to track pads literally takes 5 minutes per corner.

LSD is fantastic for balancing the car mid-corner. Higher HP cars would benefit even more as I'm only making about 270hp with my 330.

The seats - my god the seats make such a difference in feeling what the chassis is doing I can't even begin to describe it. It is mind-blowing!
I had to go with the Jaffster shift knob because I'm sitting about 2-1/2" lower in my car than with my stock sport seats. My elbow still hits the center console door (I'm going to recover it removing the foam to make it a lower profile). They are very comfortable on the street too, not being race shells and all. So, they're not the lightest seats either. The two of them net out to be 30lbs lighter than stock. They have lumbar support too.

The main reason I listed the CF hood, trunk and light weight battery is with 3/4 of a tank of gas I weighed my car. It is 3,270lbs. That means I dropped about 180lbs off my curb weight. My car feels very nimble.

R-comps are r-comps. They are the crack of tires. What else needs to be said? I added 5mph down the front straight just by adding the r-comps.
My car is setup to be very stable and doesn't do anything drastic, even if I overcook a turn.
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      09-07-2011, 12:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turugara View Post
Wavetrack LSD
M3 bits/subframe bushings
M3 front & rear sway bars
Stoptech SS lines
Motul RBF600
JB3 Stage 1
Still working off stock m-sport wheels

Wishlist:
APEX AR-C 8 with some tires, still looking for exact choice
TCKlein with Swift springs
Brembo GT bbk
Helix FMIC
Nice avatar
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      09-09-2011, 11:13 AM   #13
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Great thread...

I'm listing performance mods as well since I believe they play a factor on the track.

'07 e92 335i. AT with Stock OC.

-Procede V5 2.5 (max boost 13psi for track)
-Vishnu PMW Meth Kit (50/50 or 75/25)
-DCI, ETS 5" FMIC
-80/20 Water/Coolant mix with 2 bottles of Water Wetter
-Wavetrac LSD (bolted setup)
-M3 control arms/wishbones (-1.5F/-2.0R Camber. 0F, 1/16R Toe in)
-HR Sport & Koni Yellows
-Centric (Stoptech) Slotted Front Rotors
-Cool Carbon Pads (will be switching to something more aggressive)
-ECS SS Lines
-Motul 600 Fluid
-VMR V701 with Hankook V12 tires

The biggest opportunity is tire setup for me. I'm now looking for the perfect used set for sale. Square 17 would be ideal with either Nitto R compounds or the well regarded RS3 for the budget minded.

Have a set of rear subframe bushings. Once I buy F/R sways, I'll get it all installed at once. However, I feel the square setup will have more impact than the sways. Could be wrong.
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      09-10-2011, 07:29 PM   #14
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whats the wides wheel/tire you can go with stock ride height no camber plates on an e92
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      09-15-2011, 04:16 PM   #15
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2009 335i  [4.39]
My setup:

M3 anti roll bars (front+rear)
M3 front tension struts
M3 front lower wishbones
M3 rear subframe bushings
M3 rear guide rods
M3 rear wishbones
M3 strut brace
Quaife LSD
Bilstein B16 Ride Control coilover
Dinan camber plates
Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires 19" staggered (235 front / 265 rear)

EBC Turbo Groove brake discs
Cool Carbon brake pads
Goodridge steel brake lines
ATE Blu brake fluid

AR Design oil cooler
VK Motorwerks upgraded stock oil cooler with Setrab core
Code3Performance intercooler
AR Design catless ceramic coated downpipes
Secondary 100 cell HJS race cats
Bastuck sports exhaust
STETT Cold Air Intake (+ charge pipe)
Forge Diverter Valves
GIAC stage 2 flash tune

---

There are two things I'm currently not completely happy with: The brakes (2-3 laps on the Nürburgring and they start vibrating; one disc is warped and squeals) and the suspension (too low, not enough spring travel, rear end is too soft). I intend to address both at the beginning of next year with an AP Racing brake kit and (most likely) an Öhlins suspension.

What I'm also very conscious about right now is that the car is not the limiting factor for driving fast - it's the driver. Which is why I did 3 track days on the Nürburgring this season, which taught me a lot. Also that the car could go much, much faster than I currently dare to drive it.

I intend to write more detailed reviews about in particular my current suspension as well as the GIAC tune (which worked flawlessly, on the track and elsewhere).

Alpina_B3_Lux

P.S. I also had the AR Design aluminium radiator installed for a while, until it leaked and had to be removed. Right now I don't seem to be having problems with the water temps, nor the oil temps (the latter stayed below 130 degrees Celsius even when driving really hard).
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      09-17-2011, 01:28 PM   #16
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Ets 6' Fmic
Vanguard V2
Injen Dci
Fabspeed Catless Dp
Jb4
M3 260m Wheels With Dunlop Direzza Star Spec(staggered)
Koni Sa With Swift Coilover Conversion
Stoptech Ss Lines
Stoptech Slotted Rotors
Ferodo Ds2500 Pads
Vorsteiner V-35 Hood For Cooler Engine Bay

Wish List:volk Te37 Square Setup Or A Better Car For Track
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      09-23-2011, 09:26 PM   #17
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This thread has lost its way a bit. It was not particularly intended to be a mod list thread. More of track setup, such as
tires (square or staggered, what sizes compounds/ brands)
special track wheels?
If adjustable suspension..what are your settings, perhaps others have the same and can comment or learn from what you are doing.
Upgraded brakes? What pads? etc.

The goal here is to learn what is working and what is not. And if someone has a similar setup- perhaps a starting point.
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      09-24-2011, 01:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraRacer13 View Post
This thread has lost its way a bit. It was not particularly intended to be a mod list thread. More of track setup, such as
tires (square or staggered, what sizes compounds/ brands)
special track wheels?
If adjustable suspension..what are your settings, perhaps others have the same and can comment or learn from what you are doing.
Upgraded brakes? What pads? etc.

The goal here is to learn what is working and what is not. And if someone has a similar setup- perhaps a starting point.
Wheels: Michelin Pilot Super Sport, staggered 235/265mm. Work very well, even better than the Michelin PS2 I had before. Great grip, predictable threshold, good even in the wet.

Suspension: Bilstein B16 Ride Control. Drives ok, but the springs are not at all adapted to the car. They're too short / too weak, so that the car rides much too low even on the highest settings. On some bigger bumps or potholes the springs compress completely (due to the small travel area that's left) and you get a big hit on the wheel/chassis which is not good. The rear is also a bit too soft, even if I'm driving it in the "sport" setting (compression/rebound setting for the dampers). Also the front dampers are again making noises, after having been replaced last year. Not really satisfying for an allegedly high-end suspension. I'll replace it next spring with an Öhlins Road & Track coilover.

Brakes: I'm running with EBC Turbo Groove discs, they're OEM size but dimpled and slotted. Great under rain, but after a few laps on the Nürburgring one of the front discs warped and squeals now when I don't brake. - Pads are Cool Carbon which are much better than the stock pads, more linear brake feel, great grip especially when hot. After two hot laps on the 'Ring (22 kilometers) the brakes start to vibrate / shudder though. Which is why I'll replace them with AP Racing brakes in the front next spring.

Alpina_B3_Lux
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      09-24-2011, 09:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraRacer13 View Post
This thread has lost its way a bit. It was not particularly intended to be a mod list thread. More of track setup, such as
tires (square or staggered, what sizes compounds/ brands)
special track wheels?
If adjustable suspension..what are your settings, perhaps others have the same and can comment or learn from what you are doing.
Upgraded brakes? What pads? etc.

The goal here is to learn what is working and what is not. And if someone has a similar setup- perhaps a starting point.

LSD:
I can't possibly imagine going back to a car without LSD for track events. I've spent so much time spinning wheels at turns during the early days it's not even funny. Having all the power available throughout the turn is the determining factor on whether you'll hang with that P-car in front of you or you'll be left in the dust. The Quaife LSD has been flawless so far in this role.


Wheels/Tires:
Decided to go with a square 17" setup as I realized early on that tires would be a major cost. I currently average 10-12 track days per tire set and 6-8 days for pads.

- Kosei K1s are very light and inexpensive. Never had a problem with them and they've been beaten hard at the track for 2 years.
- Dunlop Direzza StarSpecs on the other hand perform very well only within a very specific spec. They tend to get greasy towards the end of the 20-25 minute sessions and god help you if your off from your regular hot temps, you're in for some iceskating. I start at 28/30 (front/rear) cold and get to 36/36 hot. Note that the StarSpecs are directional so you can only rotate front to back, not side to side. I tend to chew up one side first (left) so it'd be nice to be able to rotate side to side, but I digress...
- Square 245/40 setup has proven to be a huge improvement over the staggered stock setup. The car feels balanced, stable with minimal understeer. I can still power slide out at will but the car won't slide out on it's own.

Brakes:
OEM brakes and Hawk HPS fade fast. HP+ are plain horrible. PFC01s don't seem to want to do their "floating" thing well on my car, evident by the clanking sounds they produce, they do brake well though and do not fade. DTC70s chew up rotors for breakfast but stop well and do not fade, they also produce awesome sparks while braking (very cool at night!). The quest for good pads continues.
brakeperformance dimpled/slotted rotors in the front (ok, not "very" slotted anymore since I started using the DTC70 pads), nothing special. Centric rears. Fronts will be replaced with Centric plain rotors when they're worn out.

I'll try to cover other topics tomorrow.

Last edited by mid-corner fun; 09-24-2011 at 09:29 PM.
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      09-24-2011, 09:58 PM   #20
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has any one tried the hankook rs3's are they better than the star specs and how wide can you go square on e92 right now i just have 235 front and 255 rear star specs but im looking for lighter wheels and a very wide square setup 255 or 265 any suggestions?
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      09-25-2011, 07:21 PM   #21
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AR front mount second oil cooler
Helix intercooler

suspension:
AST 4100 + 350/700 swift springs (set to 5F/7R)
Vorschlag camber kit
Rear lower camber M3 conversion kit
M3 sways and shock tower brace
M3 rear subframe bushings

Brakes:
cool carbons
ECS braided steel lines
Ate blue
On the shelf (Racing Brake discs and Porterfield R4-S)

Wheels:
Kosei's 17s
Dunlop Direzza star spec 255s square

Wavetrac
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      09-26-2011, 11:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post

PFC 06 pads + Stoptech SS lines + Motul RBF
Last time I looked only PFC01s were available on this form factor, how did you get the 06s in there?
mid-corner fun is offline   United_States
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