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      06-04-2007, 03:59 AM   #1
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Instable cornering E92 335d

Well I'll post my problem here since there are a lot of people here who have a 335d. Well I received my E92 coupé (http://www.mirrorshades.be/335d/) last weekend. Because of the bad experiences I've read here about RFT, I've replaced them by Goodyear F1 Asymmetric tyres.

The car is very very comfortable on 19" tyres. But when taking a corner a bit sporty, you can feel the car wobble. It doesn't feel very very stable. What could this problem be?

Many people told me the 335d is a heavy engine and in combination with softer non-RFT (BMW's suspension for the E92 is designed for RFT), you get instable cornering.

What should I do? Is this true? Does the tyre pressure of a regular tyre need to be higher then a run flat one? The only solution they advise me is to go back to RFT (I still got my original ones - Bridgestones). Still I'm a bit afraid 19" + RFT will be to harsh of a ride.
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      06-04-2007, 04:31 AM   #2
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I'd suggest switching back to the 19' runflats. I too have 19' bridgestone runflats and the ride is excellent.

It all depends on what you are coming from but relative to e46 M3 and 997 the ride spot on

Good Luck
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      06-04-2007, 04:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post
Well I'll post my problem here since there are a lot of people here who have a 335d. Well I received my E92 coupé (http://www.mirrorshades.be/335d/) last weekend. Because of the bad experiences I've read here about RFT, I've replaced them by Goodyear F1 Asymmetric tyres.

The car is very very comfortable on 19" tyres. But when taking a corner a bit sporty, you can feel the car wobble. It doesn't feel very very stable. What could this problem be?

Many people told me the 335d is a heavy engine and in combination with softer non-RFT (BMW's suspension for the E92 is designed for RFT), you get instable cornering.

What should I do? Is this true? Does the tyre pressure of a regular tyre need to be higher then a run flat one? The only solution they advise me is to go back to RFT (I still got my original ones - Bridgestones). Still I'm a bit afraid 19" + RFT will be to harsh of a ride.
I think you've jumped the gun by ditching the runflats so soon. They really are not a problem in terms of handling since the suspension is tuned specifically for them.

However, you really should not be feeling any cornering instability, just because of a change of tyres.

Are you certain that the goodyears have been properly fitted (ie. correct pressures, wheels balanced, alignment checked, tyres facing in the correct direction etc..)?
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      06-04-2007, 12:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
I think you've jumped the gun by ditching the runflats so soon. They really are not a problem in terms of handling since the suspension is tuned specifically for them.

However, you really should not be feeling any cornering instability, just because of a change of tyres.

Are you certain that the goodyears have been properly fitted (ie. correct pressures, wheels balanced, alignment checked, tyres facing in the correct direction etc..)?
The car is at an idependent tyre dealer to check those things. They parhaps think it's a bad balancing / alignment. I'll have my car back tomorrow.

The problem is ... with my former Alfa's I could take corners really really stable, and if I'd give a bit more gas I know I would start to slide. I don't have that feeling in my BMW atm.

Also it hangs quite a lot in corners ... I'm curious ... would a BMW hang more in corners with 17 + RFT then 19 + normal tyres? I only got 7cm of tyre on my alloy.

I don't understand why A LOT of people here replaced they're RFT with normal ones and be very happy about it (without chaning supsension). Perhaps I was too soon to replace my tyres
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      06-04-2007, 01:13 PM   #5
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I changed from 16" RFT to 19" Dunlops and the grip is way better on non RFT. May have something to do with the lower profile though!
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      06-04-2007, 01:56 PM   #6
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Catscratch,you you should have kept the RFTs as has been said
Believe me the new generation are in a different league

Oh and E92's really do go round corners
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      06-04-2007, 05:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post
The car is at an idependent tyre dealer to check those things. They parhaps think it's a bad balancing / alignment. I'll have my car back tomorrow.

The problem is ... with my former Alfa's I could take corners really really stable, and if I'd give a bit more gas I know I would start to slide. I don't have that feeling in my BMW atm.

Also it hangs quite a lot in corners ... I'm curious ... would a BMW hang more in corners with 17 + RFT then 19 + normal tyres? I only got 7cm of tyre on my alloy.

I don't understand why A LOT of people here replaced they're RFT with normal ones and be very happy about it (without chaning supsension). Perhaps I was too soon to replace my tyres
If you are a very confident driver then try activating 'DTC'. With DSC fully active it's not really possible to balance the car on the throttle when cornering.

With DTC on increased wheel slip is possible which allows a greater degree of attitude through the bends.
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      06-04-2007, 06:02 PM   #8
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I ditched RFT's......on P Zeros, 265 on the rear.....no issues at all....apart from less skipping than RF's
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      06-05-2007, 03:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezebm View Post
Catscratch,you you should have kept the RFTs as has been said
Believe me the new generation are in a different league

Oh and E92's really do go round corners
I still have them .... they're just not on the car right now

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
If you are a very confident driver then try activating 'DTC'. With DSC fully active it's not really possible to balance the car on the throttle when cornering.

With DTC on increased wheel slip is possible which allows a greater degree of attitude through the bends.
Well it's my first time I have RWD and my previous Alfa 'only' had 150bhp. Not sure if I want to disable electronics yet. Could it be the electronics interfering I'm feeling?

Well I'm gonna see today if something has changed after they checked my tyres. Otherwise I'll be my RFT back one by the end of this week.
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      06-05-2007, 02:00 PM   #10
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get the car down somewhere to get an alignment check,

maybe the car was invloved in a heavy accident before you took delivery, has been repaired but is suffering ill effects from the shunt?

our 335d handles superbly always chasing evos and subarus, they are a little quicker around roundabouts but on the straights im catching
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      06-05-2007, 02:18 PM   #11
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get the car down somewhere to get an alignment check,

maybe the car was invloved in a heavy accident before you took delivery, has been repaired but is suffering ill effects from the shunt?

our 335d handles superbly always chasing evos and subarus, they are a little quicker around roundabouts but on the straights im catching
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      06-05-2007, 02:18 PM   #12
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I run my Goodyears at 35 psi in the front and 38 psi in the back and they rock solid in turns.
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      06-05-2007, 02:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
maybe the car was invloved in a heavy accident before you took delivery, has been repaired but is suffering ill effects from the shunt?
Don't scare me mate
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      06-05-2007, 04:47 PM   #14
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Never had a problem with runflats and quite a few on this forum know how hard I push the car (come to UK4!!). I'm on 18's AND H&R race springs. The handling is just stunning. Never experienced wobble...
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      06-05-2007, 05:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post
Well it's my first time I have RWD and my previous Alfa 'only' had 150bhp. Not sure if I want to disable electronics yet. Could it be the electronics interfering I'm feeling?

Well I'm gonna see today if something has changed after they checked my tyres. Otherwise I'll be my RFT back one by the end of this week.
If it is the electronics you will see the dsc light flash up on the dash when it kicks in. (triangle with and arrow round it)

Compared to FWD the cornering should be much more progressive. FWD tends to be understeer or snappy lift off oversteer.

With RWD the 'limit' should be reached more gradually reached and the car should feel more 'balanced'.

Can you explain what you mean by 'unstable' and 'hanging' in corners a little more deeply?
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      06-06-2007, 12:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
Can you explain what you mean by 'unstable' and 'hanging' in corners a little more deeply?
Well in corners you feel the back a bit pulling away ... sliding a bit ... I can't explain it very well the car feels like it's searching in it's tyres. I made a pictures how it feels. Not that the car actually slides, but it feels that way.



Well I have my car back ... back tyres are on 3.3 bar, front ones 3.1-3.2 (can't remember exactly). They say ... if you want the best performance, go with run flats. They are VERY hard, but they don't give nothing in corners.

I'll see how my car handles with the new pressure (+0.8 bar).
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      06-06-2007, 01:09 PM   #17
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Well in corners you feel the back a bit pulling away ... sliding a bit ... I can't explain it very well the car feels like it's searching in it's tyres. I made a pictures how it feels. Not that the car actually slides, but it feels that way.



Well I have my car back ... back tyres are on 3.3 bar, front ones 3.1-3.2 (can't remember exactly). They say ... if you want the best performance, go with run flats. They are VERY hard, but they don't give nothing in corners.

I'll see how my car handles with the new pressure (+0.8 bar).
WTF?
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      06-06-2007, 01:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezebm View Post
WTF?
Ah you like my drawing talent?
Well it's not *that* bad ... but it feels a bit like that. The car won't corner perfect, the back of the car slides a bit to the outside.

Are there any people here with a 335d who ditched their runflats? I know peppernick has, but he also got another suspension if I'm not mistaken. Many people changed their run flats, but mostly 320d, 335i, etc ... their engine is not that heavy.

Anyways ... it's because of the weight of the engine in combination with softer tyres then run flats probably. I still have my run flats, so if the results stay the same with increased pressure, I'm gonna put my run flats back on.
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      06-06-2007, 02:18 PM   #19
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There was an article in Auto Express a few months ago which tried non-RFT tyres on cars designed for RFT's.
They generally found that overall handling and grip was below par and warned that non-RFT's should not be used on such cars. The suspension is supposedly set up for the RFT's and not normal tyres.

I think what prompted them to do the test was that a lot of people are now opting for non-RFT's when replacing their tyres due to the price advantage.

I dont know if this was scare tactics encouraged by the tyre manufacturers to get us to spend more money - but it is cause for some concern perhaps.

When my wife had her mini cooper a few years ago we replaced the tyres with non-RFT's and it handled like crap afterwards. It may have been that the replacement tyres (Avon ZZ3's) were just not good to begin with - not sure.

This time we replaced her 120d's tyres with the exact same ones (Bridgestone RE050 RTF's) and have had no such problems.

I am not promoting RFT's but just giving you my personal findings.

I dont know what I will do when it comes to replacing the 19" RFT's on my car, but will need to do more research before i move away from them.
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      06-06-2007, 06:15 PM   #20
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Are there any people here with a 335d who ditched their runflats?
Yep.



Runflats in the summer are just tolerable......in the winter, they are a nightmare.

Grip is improved, as is ride quality, it doesn't trip the DTC as easy neither, tho i have put 265's on the rear which helps.
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      06-07-2007, 12:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roofer View Post
Yep.



Runflats in the summer are just tolerable......in the winter, they are a nightmare.

Grip is improved, as is ride quality, it doesn't trip the DTC as easy neither, tho i have put 265's on the rear which helps.
Ah yes, but I think it was only the e92 and e93 which have a suspension specific for RFT. Not sure about the e90 and e91.

Well now with my tyres on 3.3 bar. It feels like I'm riding on bicycle tyres. Steering feels much too light and on the highway I need to correct the steering every second or so, gonna change my tyres back to the original RFT
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      06-07-2007, 03:19 AM   #22
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Well I have my car back ... back tyres are on 3.3 bar, front ones 3.1-3.2 (can't remember exactly). They say ... if you want the best performance, go with run flats. They are VERY hard, but they don't give nothing in corners.

I'll see how my car handles with the new pressure (+0.8 bar).
I have 235/35/19 fronts and 265/30/19 rears and am running 2.4 bar front and 2.7 bar rear with a perfect wear pattern across the width of the tyres. The ride felt a little "bouncy" after I took the RFT`s off but never twitchy. I solved the "bounciness" by fitting Eibach springs.

3.3 and 3.1 bar seems a bit high to me, isn`t that what BMW quote for their reccomended tyres at full load/high speed ?
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