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      12-03-2005, 05:14 PM   #1
MMVI
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Rant about software updates

I have asked the dealer to fit the latest software update to my car in an attempt to fix the 3100 hesitation issue. I have heard of a link. They say that they have to apply to BMW and that I might not be able to have it.

Has the OS changed. Have they changed the hardware. I doubt it.
Are they hiding or hoping not to issue a recall. Don't you all think this is pretty crap...

A manufacturer releases a car to a market to which they are unsure how it will be received. Early adopters commit their hard earned to a new product which frankly is full of bugs and are increasingly told that their thanks for this that older models (just a cotton picking minute here, older ones with which their is only 4 weeks in it in a 12-16 week old vehicle) cannot get updates.

Who the bloody hell do BMW think they are.
This isnt Ģ200 quids worth of bloody desktop software...
Oh hey just a minute I have realised that you get more support from Ģ200 quids worth of desktop software than the 28ks worth of motor I have just shelled out for.

The dealers seem scared/reluctant to apply the patches.
Sometimes I dont want to apply a service pack to an NT server,
but its my job. Get over it.

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      12-03-2005, 05:41 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMVI
I have asked the dealer to fit the latest software update to my car in an attempt to fix the 3100 hesitation issue. I have heard of a link. They say that they have to apply to BMW and that I might not be able to have it.

Has the OS changed. Have they changed the hardware. I doubt it.
Are they hiding or hoping not to issue a recall. Don't you all think this is pretty crap...

A manufacturer releases a car to a market to which they are unsure how it will be received. Early adopters commit their hard earned to a new product which frankly is full of bugs and are increasingly told that their thanks for this that older models (just a cotton picking minute here, older ones with which their is only 4 weeks in it in a 12-16 week old vehicle) cannot get updates.

Who the bloody hell do BMW think they are.
This isnt Ģ200 quids worth of bloody desktop software...
Oh hey just a minute I have realised that you get more support from Ģ200 quids worth of desktop software than the 28ks worth of motor I have just shelled out for.

The dealers seem scared/reluctant to apply the patches.
Sometimes I dont want to apply a service pack to an NT server,
but its my job. Get over it.

The dealers won't touch it if there is no problem with the car - they wouldn't with mine. However, I then went in and said that my car was suffering from hesitation at 3100rpm and I wanted them to fix it under warranty. I then informed them that CIP 19 fixes the problem and they did it for me.
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      12-03-2005, 05:58 PM   #3
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      12-03-2005, 06:29 PM   #4
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As JHBodle said in essence, software upgrades are not needed by all cars. Having said that, I participated in a Saturday BMW CCA Tech Session at a BMW dealership recently. My car was new (5000 miles) and I had no issues. The lead technician checked my VIN and told me that there were 8 or 9 software updates available and offered to install them. It took about 2 hours total for the updates. Is this a reason to join the BMW CCA and deal with a top notch dealer or what?
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      12-04-2005, 11:15 AM   #5
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Unfortunately ben1364, there is no BMW CCA or its equivalent in the UK. It would be fantastic if there was.
So, in the UK, if software updates are available for a specific e90 model, but are not deemed to be necessary updates by the BMW Garage (eg mp3 on SatNavPro), then are we expected to pay for these updates, even if they are mentioned to be available in the manual (ie mp3 playback)?
Would we therefore have to mention some non-existing problem in order to have a specific update under warranty, like having mp3 playback, if & when it appears in the same CIP update as the non-existing problem???!!!
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      12-04-2005, 11:28 AM   #6
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MMVI - I and others have ranted about this issue in the past too. I share your opinion about the 'second rate' treatment that the early adopters have gotten with respect to improved functionality between production batches for the same model year car. My E91 has many many OBC features not available in the E90, and it annoys me. If we were getting the Beta version E90, we should have gotten some benefits from it at least (besides the fun of having it first).

Clearly, this little piggy was not ready to go to market in May, but dates had been committed to, and many dollars were on the line. Others here disagree with me, but I feel that BMW should retro-fit the "old" cars. Having said that, it won't happen and BMW doesn't care what we think. All things to consider next time the new car bug bites me....
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      12-04-2005, 11:53 AM   #7
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If a update is not required to fix something its not free, you can pay to have it done. Problem comes if there is a problem where a module needs changing due to a conflict. If the update wasnt being done under warranty you would have to pay to change that module, simply because your car never needed that update in the first place.

As for when MP3 functionality for pro nav comes out, the consesus is that that upgrade would probably be given free, since the function was advertised

If your car has the hesitation, then your dealer ahould update it. If they dont want to go to another dealer or call BMW UK. Its your delaer being bad, not BMW.


LEDZEP is probably getting tired of me saying this, but you must expect changes in model years ( September cars are 2006 models, before were 2005 ) and the 6 month March update can also include changes. 6 Months is a long time in computer hardware and software development. Changes will be made.

You will probably see some changes in March again. A change in tire pressure monitoring seems to be on the cards for the 5 Series, and possibly 3 series aswell. New system will show actual pressure in each wheel, but will be much better and not be affected by tire changes like old system that used to do that before the current system came out that only tells you you hav a flat.
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      12-04-2005, 12:33 PM   #8
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Take your point about model years E90Fleet but and its a big but we did not get the car in the UK until the summer. We have not had a product year and believed it to be the finished item only to find out that literally weeks or even days later, the model was updated and if you have the Mark I you're stuffed.

Looking back it something seems strange to me.
I ordered it in early june for sept delivery. 12-16w process.
All of a sudden w1 August my car is at the dealer early and had to sit there until I was ready. What happend there. I would predict that the slots were dumped by people lucky enought to have been made aware of the model year change and I picked up one of the old ones.
A model year change for heavens sake, it had been out 8 weeks.

I would be prepared to put money on it that many UK owners placed orders for cars unseen or undriven just because they had faith that it was BMW and this was the 3 series, and they are being stiffed.
BMW have taken orders for hardware that was not ready it seems are not honouring the requirement to update.

I am not going to let it go and I have told the dealer so.
I am perhaps being a little ungracioius as they have not yet come back to me regarding the update but the body language is, you are on your own. I have the 3100 hesitation and frankly after aspiring most of my adult life to a six cylinder bmw after having two fours and to find that it has quite a bad fault is too much.

I love the car. I want it to be perfect. Lets hope they do the decent thing.
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      12-04-2005, 12:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet

LEDZEP is probably getting tired of me saying this, but you must expect changes in model years ( September cars are 2006 models, before were 2005 ) and the 6 month March update can also include changes. 6 Months is a long time in computer hardware and software development. Changes will be made.
No problem . We've agreed to disagree to some degree on this issue (which is fairly moot anyway). In the U.S. the E90s produced from day one are called 2006. Marketing ploy or not, there is an implied responsibility there - especially when many of us were told when we bought our cars that the software would be updated in September to allow the OBC functions, MP3 for the iDrive folks, etc.

In the end it is what it is, but I think BMW is making a long term mistake by making many owners feel cheated. Brand loyalty and customer confidence is the most precious asset that any company can aquire.

It's really too bad that BMW doesn't read this forum. Apart from all our petty griping and nonsense threads, there is a wealth of consumer information here for the taking. Thousands of customers providing candid comments and feedback about your product... why wouldn't you want to know?
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      12-04-2005, 01:04 PM   #10
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Further too...

I was in rant mode again and forgot to thank E90fleet for his interesting heads up. Your repeated contributions of insider knowledge is always interesting.
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      12-04-2005, 01:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMVI
Take your point about model years E90Fleet but and its a big but we did not get the car in the UK until the summer. We have not had a product year and believed it to be the finished item only to find out that literally weeks or even days later, the model was updated and if you have the Mark I you're stuffed.

Looking back it something seems strange to me.
I ordered it in early june for sept delivery. 12-16w process.
All of a sudden w1 August my car is at the dealer early and had to sit there until I was ready. What happend there. I would predict that the slots were dumped by people lucky enought to have been made aware of the model year change and I picked up one of the old ones.
A model year change for heavens sake, it had been out 8 weeks.

I would be prepared to put money on it that many UK owners placed orders for cars unseen or undriven just because they had faith that it was BMW and this was the 3 series, and they are being stiffed.
BMW have taken orders for hardware that was not ready it seems are not honouring the requirement to update.

I am not going to let it go and I have told the dealer so.
I am perhaps being a little ungracioius as they have not yet come back to me regarding the update but the body language is, you are on your own. I have the 3100 hesitation and frankly after aspiring most of my adult life to a six cylinder bmw after having two fours and to find that it has quite a bad fault is too much.

I love the car. I want it to be perfect. Lets hope they do the decent thing.
I agree your hesitation should be fixed, and other members have reported here that the current update does fix it. So the problem here is just your dealer that was reluctant to update the software. This has nothing to do with the September changes.


As for when your car came, that depends on your dealers allocation, and what allocation slot they selected to have built to your spec.
Our dealers here can select a specific week when your spec will be built, so im shure yours would be the same. Someone at your dealership decided to spec a earlier slot to your specs. Why, only they know


On the cars changing: E90 production started aoround September 2004, though not at full rate, and the cars wernt for "normal" customers. March 2005 saw a few changes (suspension, electronic bits ect ect ), and "normal" customer production started at full rate

In September 2005 the car was 1 year old and there were a few small changes for the next MY year ( nearly all non-US car manufactuers change their MY in September and have changes ).

The E90 changes were small, and rrally only added a few extra options to the OBC. The E60 had much larger changes,. The E46 used to have quite a bit of changes each MY. Many people did not know about, just because they wernt options on the OBC.

Fact is BMW updates their cars to new standards every 6 months, just like most other manufacturers.
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      12-04-2005, 01:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMVI
Further too...

I was in rant mode again and forgot to thank E90fleet for his interesting heads up. Your repeated contributions of insider knowledge is always interesting.
No problem

This is why I try and make people aware of whats happening, so one hopefually doesnt get caught unaware.
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      12-04-2005, 01:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDZEP
No problem . We've agreed to disagree to some degree on this issue (which is fairly moot anyway). In the U.S. the E90s produced from day one are called 2006. Marketing ploy or not, there is an implied responsibility there - especially when many of us were told when we bought our cars that the software would be updated in September to allow the OBC functions, MP3 for the iDrive folks, etc.

In the end it is what it is, but I think BMW is making a long term mistake by making many owners feel cheated. Brand loyalty and customer confidence is the most precious asset that any company can aquire.

It's really too bad that BMW doesn't read this forum. Apart from all our petty griping and nonsense threads, there is a wealth of consumer information here for the taking. Thousands of customers providing candid comments and feedback about your product... why wouldn't you want to know?
Howmuch are you really missing ? ( not being sarcastic, really wondering )

MP3 will come to all pro-nav cars, dont worry. We are hoping CIP20 will have it
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      12-04-2005, 01:36 PM   #14
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Not much honestly... the few features I wanted and was promised have been enabled via the software update (auto door locking, key fob memory for seat and mirrors, etc.). I have the (dis)advantage of also having the E91 and knowing how many more things can be selected at will. The one thing I can't do in the E90 that I can in the E91 that really bugs me is setting the priority for the bluetooth devices.

It's more of a "it really bugs me" thing than anything. And it doesn't even bug that much anymore... but I stick to my opinion - notwithstanding that they certainly should be expected to make incremental improvements and changes. In which case, they should have classified the cars as 2005 1/2, 2006 - or 2006, 2006+.
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      12-04-2005, 02:45 PM   #15
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My sentiment is much in line with Ledzep.
I would like drive away locking, I want the hesitation fixed but am not after anything else. I have a real fault that should be repaired, its not too much to ask.
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      12-04-2005, 02:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMVI
My sentiment is much in line with Ledzep.
I would like drive away locking, I want the hesitation fixed but am not after anything else. I have a real fault that should be repaired, its not too much to ask.

UK has had a issue with driveaway locking on a number of models, I dont know why.

The rest of the world can have it activated by the dealer on pre-september cars.

Have you asked your dealer if they can do it ?

Again, others have noted that CIP 19 fixes the hesitation, so if your dealer is too lazy to do it, try another one if you can
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      12-04-2005, 03:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMVI
My sentiment is much in line with Ledzep.
I would like drive away locking, I want the hesitation fixed but am not after anything else. I have a real fault that should be repaired, its not too much to ask.
You are right. If you have a real issue, it should be fixed under warranty. If it needs a SW update to get fixed, then that should be free.

I donīt think there should be automatic updates for everybody if the car runs fine. But if something is amiss (and not a feature but a basic function of the car), then the update needs to be free.

I believe that is also the standpoint of BMW in most cases. Dealerships are hesitant of SW updates because they are so hard to calculate. Too often something goes wrong, modules get fried, parts need to be ordered and return dates get overdrawn. That makes both the customer and the dealer unhappy, so they avoid SW updates whenever they can.

Case in point: my June production 330 ran just fine and all I wanted was the activation of the Daytime running lights. Turns out the SW version I had would not support it. So I too was told, thereīs nothing we can do. "Unless you have a SW update run at your cost and your risk.

I can actually understand that. I wanted a feature that was clearly stated as optional.

But then, a little insistance, a little kindness, a little involvement from my sales manager and the concurrent purchase of a set of winter wheels and tires (that I was there to buy anyway) all helped to get me a free SW update and the activation of the DRLīs.

It often really is a question of how you ask.
I never asked for a SW update. Instead I appealed for help to all involved parties, insisting that DRLīs were an important safety feature to me. Hinting at the fact that DRLīs are an easy matter for most competitors probably helped too.

How about just insisting they fix your 3200rpm hesitancy any way they see fit? I believe it is a known problem on the early Euro spec 325, there is a TSB for it and it involves a SW update. All along the normal warranty repair route.

Sit back, relax and tell them to fix your engine problem and youīll get the update. Or go to another dealership and tell them about your unhappiness with the service at the other dealership. The might be happy to do some BMW-paid work on your car and invest into future business with you.

Kindness and a smile combined with gentle insistance (simply do not leave until a satisfactory solution is found, but never loose your temper) really can work miracles.
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      12-08-2005, 03:30 PM   #18
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My car was in the dealer today to have the software update applied.
It HAS! fixed the problem. The engine is now smooth throughout the range. When collecting it they confirmed that an engineer who test drove it did see the fault, even though up until then they said they knew nothing about it, and could not find it on their last drive.

Unfortunately I cannot tell you which CIP was applied.
Of note I asked would drive away locking be fitted as part of this patch. They said no and that it was a Ģ180 retrofit upgrade so I don't know whether I have inherited this or not during this process.

I could continue to be churlish about this, after all we are talking about a software function on a very expensive purchase but frankly I am just glad that the engine (the very reason I bought the car) is now working as it should.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.
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      12-08-2005, 04:44 PM   #19
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vivekk wrote in part, "Unfortunately ben1364, there is no BMW CCA or its equivalent in the UK. It would be fantastic if there was.<snip>."
__________________________________________________ __I thought there was a BMW car club in the UK? You might want to check. Nevertheless, I think it is more a case of a caring dealership thah club affiliation. The dealer that hosted the Tech. Session is dedicated to earning repeat business and referrals from customers. In this respect, it is somewhat unique. Dealers in the U S are not required to install updates simply because a customer requests them. Also, it is easier for some dealers than for others. This dealer hs a network of computer terminals serving virtually every service stall. Many do not.
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      12-08-2005, 05:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I thought there was a BMW car club in the UK? You might want to check.
You are right ben1364. There is the BMW Car Club of Great Britain & Ireland.
I'll have to find out what they can do regarding software updates, if anything.
Thanks.
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      12-08-2005, 08:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekk
You are right ben1364. There is the BMW Car Club of Great Britain & Ireland.
I'll have to find out what they can do regarding software updates, if anything.
Thanks.
__________________________________________________ __I'm glad you found the Club. While it probably won't be able to help you with updates, unless your car has symptoms indicating the updates are necesary, the club can make your experience with a BMW more enjoyable. I encourage you to look into the benefits of membership. In the U S, the BMW CCA magaxine "Roundel" is more than worth the cost of membership as are the perks including discounts on parts and service. Enjoy your car!
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      12-18-2005, 02:13 AM   #22
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More information, now a week or so on...

The Software upgrade HAS greatly improved the hesitation but it still occurs although much less often.

I had sincerely hoped this problem had gone away but it still lingers albeit on a much reduced basis. When I posted my reply stating that it was fixed it had not then reoccured. It is much much better but still there.

Posting this to keep anyone else suffering informed.

I would be very interested to share information on this with others with the same problem.
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