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      09-16-2011, 07:48 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
Hi where do I find the spreadsheet?

If someone could help I really don't want to read 30 pages, I skimmed about 10 already but have no definitive answers.

I'm looking at buying a 135 or 335, but I'm worried about this overheating oil problem, I'm going to get a 6 spd, and only look for one with sport package so I have the oil cooler.

What is the definitive answer to keep these engines cool?

Monacool engine mix/Stage 2 Oil cooler

Is that it? I want to lap for a session with out having to pull over ever 3-4 laps or loosing power. If this is the case, I may just opt to buy a e90 M3, instead but would rather save the money if I can!
I am sure someone can better answer, but from what I can remember, the only way to get good use is performance package (mostly for oil cooler), moocool, Manual tranny, non-blistering ambient temps, and possibly hacking up/modifying air duct to the cooler with a bigger one. Oh, i forgot probably the most important part, proper cycle of warm up and cool down laps. Depending on AT's, idk if you'll do a 20 minute session with 18/20 laps driving at 10/10 with AT's that arent cold. Due to these issues and the lack of a performance diff I find it less desireable to take my 335 to a HPDE.


Because of all this I am seriously considering the M1. If you can handle the smaller coupe (not needing a bigger 4 door) the way I look at it is it has all of the performance advantages of the M3 (coolers, a real diff unlike the 335, suspension etc) with a lighter curb weight and possibly higher performance drive train. I see more tuneability, potential HP, and affordability out of a 1M than an M3.

what i really want to see is what options the 1M has in regards to procede, meth, etc. I havent even looked into it yet so please excuse my lack of knowledge

just my .02
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      09-16-2011, 09:10 PM   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
Hi where do I find the spreadsheet?

If someone could help I really don't want to read 30 pages, I skimmed about 10 already but have no definitive answers.

I'm looking at buying a 135 or 335, but I'm worried about this overheating oil problem, I'm going to get a 6 spd, and only look for one with sport package so I have the oil cooler.

What is the definitive answer to keep these engines cool?

Monacool engine mix/Stage 2 Oil cooler

Is that it? I want to lap for a session with out having to pull over ever 3-4 laps or loosing power. If this is the case, I may just opt to buy a e90 M3, instead but would rather save the money if I can!
post 658 has the sheet. to edit try post 1. Read the thread, its worthwhile.
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      09-16-2011, 10:14 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
Hi where do I find the spreadsheet?

If someone could help I really don't want to read 30 pages, I skimmed about 10 already but have no definitive answers.

I'm looking at buying a 135 or 335, but I'm worried about this overheating oil problem, I'm going to get a 6 spd, and only look for one with sport package so I have the oil cooler.

What is the definitive answer to keep these engines cool?

Monacool engine mix/Stage 2 Oil cooler

Is that it? I want to lap for a session with out having to pull over ever 3-4 laps or loosing power. If this is the case, I may just opt to buy a e90 M3, instead but would rather save the money if I can!
My Advise: Go ahead and buy am E90 M3. From the above statement, you're an instant gratification guy, and you simply will not have the patience to enjoy ANY N54/55 powered vehicle. If you ever plan on tracking the M3, it would be a good idea to look into putting in a larger oil cooler than stock. You see, all cars suffer from heat @ the track during the summer.
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      09-17-2011, 11:33 AM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
My Advise: Go ahead and buy am E90 M3. From the above statement, you're an instant gratification guy, and you simply will not have the patience to enjoy ANY N54/55 powered vehicle. If you ever plan on tracking the M3, it would be a good idea to look into putting in a larger oil cooler than stock. You see, all cars suffer from heat @ the track during the summer.
I've been in an M3 that had to take a cool down lap in the middle of a session in the spring at Laguna Seca. It wasn't hot that day.
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      09-17-2011, 11:55 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
I've been in an M3 that had to take a cool down lap in the middle of a session in the spring at Laguna Seca. It wasn't hot that day.
I have pics on this thread of an E90 M3's oil temps at 290F, after 3 laps on an 86 degree day.
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      09-17-2011, 12:13 PM   #666
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maybe its a bmw thing, my friends gt-r and 996 turbo ran fine without ANY overheating issues whatsoever when i had to miss 3 sessions out of 4 because of limp mode, it was 97 degrees that day though, manual with stock oil cooler
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      09-17-2011, 11:17 PM   #667
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Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
I have pics on this thread of an E90 M3's oil temps at 290F, after 3 laps on an 86 degree day.
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      09-18-2011, 06:51 AM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
My Advise: Go ahead and buy am E90 M3. From the above statement, you're an instant gratification guy, and you simply will not have the patience to enjoy ANY N54/55 powered vehicle. If you ever plan on tracking the M3, it would be a good idea to look into putting in a larger oil cooler than stock. You see, all cars suffer from heat @ the track during the summer.
That's pretty dry considering there is a lot of fluff in the thread, and no one has condensed it down in to a FAQ or placed all the relevant info on page #1

Basically after skimming though 10 pages (non consecutively trying to find answers and going back when I see interesting info quoted). It's easy to say search and read the whole thread and waste 3-6 hours when the answer can be edited into post #1 with the details :/

I know nothing about BMW's and nothing about the E90's except what I just read her today. I'm coming form a supra background and have been in the supra world for 10 years. All of my cars including my DD's where 2jz-GTE's making over 400 WHP so excuse me if I seem a little green regarding cooling problems with the N54 in the E90's

@ UltraRacer13 - Is that the whole spread sheet? I though there was more... Saw that post.

@Sejzella - Funny because the 02 996 turbo is the other car on the list out of the 4 that i'm looking at ... 135/335 08 M3/ 01-04 996 turbo.
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      09-18-2011, 08:06 AM   #669
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Have you looked at the 1st post? It has links to interesting data/discussions within this thread. I'm also looking at 08/09 M3s and 996 TTs, each have their own set of probs. Good luck with the search


Quote:
Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
That's pretty dry considering there is a lot of fluff in the thread, and no one has condensed it down in to a FAQ or placed all the relevant info on page #1

Basically after skimming though 10 pages (non consecutively trying to find answers and going back when I see interesting info quoted). It's easy to say search and read the whole thread and waste 3-6 hours when the answer can be edited into post #1 with the details :/

I know nothing about BMW's and nothing about the E90's except what I just read her today. I'm coming form a supra background and have been in the supra world for 10 years. All of my cars including my DD's where 2jz-GTE's making over 400 WHP so excuse me if I seem a little green regarding cooling problems with the N54 in the E90's

@ UltraRacer13 - Is that the whole spread sheet? I though there was more... Saw that post.

@Sejzella - Funny because the 02 996 turbo is the other car on the list out of the 4 that i'm looking at ... 135/335 08 M3/ 01-04 996 turbo.
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      09-18-2011, 09:28 AM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
Have you looked at the 1st post? It has links to interesting data/discussions within this thread. I'm also looking at 08/09 M3s and 996 TTs, each have their own set of probs. Good luck with the search
Agree, this is why I'm going to a street legal E36 m3 that is track prepped - I want something that has been thoroughly debugged and modified to handle issues without creating an uber harsh DD car. I'm still installing the ER Competition Oil Coolers from ZSaphire, and may keep Cobb for fun, but this will primarily be an occasional track car from here on out...
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      09-18-2011, 03:38 PM   #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
I know nothing about BMW's and nothing about the E90's except what I just read her today. I'm coming form a supra background and have been in the supra world for 10 years. All of my cars including my DD's where 2jz-GTE's making over 400 WHP so excuse me if I seem a little green regarding cooling problems with the N54 in the E90's.
BMW's have gotten very complicated, to deal with. Note this, especially when coming from a simple-to-work-on supra. The only time you will run into any cooling problems with the N54 is if you track the vehicle. The stock cooling is as insufficient on the track as the 2jz-GTE--> See comment number 7

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-f...ooler-kit.html

I was all set to buy an '09 ISF a few weeks ago, but when I did some research on the car through the forums, it seems like their stock cooling is just as bad as my 335I's, with NO engine, or trans oil cooler, other than through the over burdened coolant. The car even shuts down at the track:

http://www.streetfire.net/video/batt...sf_2061223.htm
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      09-19-2011, 08:14 AM   #672
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Well, I just wrapped up the season with a 2-day event. It was freaking cold. To no-one's surprise, the car experienced no limp modes whatsoever from 44F to 56F ambient

I'm not investing any more money in this one (except consumables) at this point, I've got the whole winter to decide what to do next season.
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      09-19-2011, 08:40 AM   #673
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Buy an M3. I have literally spent thousands on trying to get my vehicle limp mode proof. It is an expensive ordeal on the 335. Most people on this forum that I have noticed don't really track their car all that much. For those that do, limp mode is a big issue during the summer months for this vehicle. I have have bought every accessory currently offered and had some custom made to 'help' with this issue. I can now lap, but that's 10K later...
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      09-19-2011, 08:58 AM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Way View Post
Buy an M3. I have literally spent thousands on trying to get my vehicle limp mode proof. It is an expensive ordeal on the 335. Most people on this forum that I have noticed don't really track their car all that much. For those that do, limp mode is a big issue during the summer months for this vehicle. I have have bought every accessory currently offered and had some custom made to 'help' with this issue. I can now lap, but that's 10K later...
Hi,

could you please elaborate on the custom stuff you've got done for your car? I've passed the 20k Euros barrier on mods, have most aftermarket stuff that's available for cooling and still need to adress high coolant temps on the track. Would be great to get more input
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      09-19-2011, 09:30 AM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Way View Post
Buy an M3. I have literally spent thousands on trying to get my vehicle limp mode proof. It is an expensive ordeal on the 335. Most people on this forum that I have noticed don't really track their car all that much. For those that do, limp mode is a big issue during the summer months for this vehicle. I have have bought every accessory currently offered and had some custom made to 'help' with this issue. I can now lap, but that's 10K later...
A stock M3 is not a solution either. Agreed though that cooling the N54 for track duty is a more expensive ordeal.

Have a look at the M3 track forum, top thread right now is "Overheating at the track" with overheating reports within a few laps and 80F, and discussions on cooling mods...
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      09-19-2011, 09:47 AM   #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
Well, I just wrapped up the season with a 2-day event. It was freaking cold. To no-one's surprise, the car experienced no limp modes whatsoever from 44F to 56F ambient

I'm not investing any more money in this one (except consumables) at this point, I've got the whole winter to decide what to do next season.
Congrats peter. It must have felt pretty gratifying to complete a full day at the track with no limp modes. I like you have given up completely on racing this thing in the summer. My next even is in mid October. This ensures a day time high of not more than 55F. I'm not looking into getting another vehicle, so from now on, I will be racing in the spring/fall.
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      09-19-2011, 09:50 AM   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
A stock M3 is not a solution either. Agreed though that cooling the N54 for track duty is a more expensive ordeal.

Have a look at the M3 track forum, top thread right now is "Overheating at the track" with overheating reports within a few laps and 80F, and discussions on cooling mods...
Huh,....funny thing is, I was just trolling around the E46 3 series forums, and even for the non-M models, the top post in the track sections, is: How do I complete a full day at the track without over heating (trans & oil temp induced limp mode). I tell ya, car after car I've looked at seems to be own3d by this problem. They just don't fully engineer cars these days. The only other vehicle that seems immune to this issue is corvettes. Never heard of heating problems at the track with them.
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      09-19-2011, 10:10 AM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
A stock M3 is not a solution either. Agreed though that cooling the N54 for track duty is a more expensive ordeal.

Have a look at the M3 track forum, top thread right now is "Overheating at the track" with overheating reports within a few laps and 80F, and discussions on cooling mods...
Love the one guy that said: "guys I've found that if you turn on the heater at the track, it really helps out the high temps. This really isn't a problem, because the windows are down, so you really don't notice it that much...."
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      09-20-2011, 04:11 AM   #679
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Wouldn't a bigger Rad fix some of the overheating issues? Does the car use a electric fan setup or mechanical fan? I know that when I have electrics on my supra it would easily overheat, but using the stock mechanical fan keeps it super cold. See the problem is electric fans usually just do not flow enough CFM where as the clutch fan especially with thicker oil will float stupid amounts of air making up for tight tracks where not a hell of a lot of air flow gets over the rad.

You really couldn't have spent 10k on coolant stuff... For that I would have expected a PWR rad, push and pull fans, (if electric) and a bunch of other crap... On my mk4 supra, I used to overheat the oil after 5-6 hard laps because I wasn't getting enough air over my B&M oil cooler I installed. I needed to make a better air duct for it.

Thanks for the constructive replies.

BTW peter, you are an AUTO, and aren't auto's usually coolant cooled by the rad as well? Wouldn't a manual not suffer from this nearly as much? Doesn't that attribute even more to your problem, also you are 335 which is a little heavier which works the engine harder and longer? Are all the cars on your list 335's or are there any 135's?

Last edited by zazzn; 09-20-2011 at 04:26 AM.
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      09-20-2011, 05:23 AM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
Wouldn't a bigger Rad fix some of the overheating issues? Does the car use a electric fan setup or mechanical fan? I know that when I have electrics on my supra it would easily overheat, but using the stock mechanical fan keeps it super cold. See the problem is electric fans usually just do not flow enough CFM where as the clutch fan especially with thicker oil will float stupid amounts of air making up for tight tracks where not a hell of a lot of air flow gets over the rad.

You really couldn't have spent 10k on coolant stuff... For that I would have expected a PWR rad, push and pull fans, (if electric) and a bunch of other crap... On my mk4 supra, I used to overheat the oil after 5-6 hard laps because I wasn't getting enough air over my B&M oil cooler I installed. I needed to make a better air duct for it.

Thanks for the constructive replies.

BTW peter, you are an AUTO, and aren't auto's usually coolant cooled by the rad as well? Wouldn't a manual not suffer from this nearly as much? Doesn't that attribute even more to your problem, also you are 335 which is a little heavier which works the engine harder and longer? Are all the cars on your list 335's or are there any 135's?
Yes, automatic transmission cars are more prone to overheating than MT.

On my car the following budget went into cooling (approx prices incl. labour):

AR Design Oil Cooler 950 EUR
ER Sports Series OC 1400 EUR (including custom stainless steel lines)
335is Airducts 100 EUR

Next is the Performance Kit Radiator for approx 1000 EUR installed.

Still far away from $10k, so I guess that estimate includes suspension and power mods.

The PWR radiator costs $1000, but no one seems to have it installed so far. Would be great to see an actual customer review on this.
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      09-20-2011, 08:35 AM   #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazzn View Post
Wouldn't a bigger Rad fix some of the overheating issues? Does the car use a electric fan setup or mechanical fan? I know that when I have electrics on my supra it would easily overheat, but using the stock mechanical fan keeps it super cold. See the problem is electric fans usually just do not flow enough CFM where as the clutch fan especially with thicker oil will float stupid amounts of air making up for tight tracks where not a hell of a lot of air flow gets over the rad.

You really couldn't have spent 10k on coolant stuff... For that I would have expected a PWR rad, push and pull fans, (if electric) and a bunch of other crap... On my mk4 supra, I used to overheat the oil after 5-6 hard laps because I wasn't getting enough air over my B&M oil cooler I installed. I needed to make a better air duct for it.

Thanks for the constructive replies.

BTW peter, you are an AUTO, and aren't auto's usually coolant cooled by the rad as well? Wouldn't a manual not suffer from this nearly as much? Doesn't that attribute even more to your problem, also you are 335 which is a little heavier which works the engine harder and longer? Are all the cars on your list 335's or are there any 135's?
Yes, autos are worse than MT but both exhibit overheating at the track. This forum is for the e90 platform so we're referring to the 335 mostly, although there are a few that track (non-turbo) 328s and 330s.

It's typically a toss between coolant and oil overheating first.

For water issues, we typically run distilled + water wetter/Mocool. We've only seen 1-2 aftermarket radiator reports and one of the early installs (prototype?) was leaking. And even then, here's a complication with cooling the 2 cylinders on the back:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=417

Somewhere in the thread I've also reported very volatile water temps, that was early in the summer where a long straight could drop temps by several degrees (& skyrocket at the pits when cooling was significantly reduced). As ambient rose to 80F+, that delta disappeared and water temps stayed high up, the cooling system was saturated.

On the other hand, several of us run aftermarket OCs with great success. Have a look at the spreadsheet to see how oil temps have been contained. Last year I was hitting 300F (immediate limp mode), this year with the STETT OC I don't even look at the oil gauge anymore.

Then you have IATs and traction control limp modes, both covered at the 1st post.

Having said all this, the car is fun to drive at the track. It's tossable/adequate handling and has a good torque curve. If you're willing to avoid the warmest month(s) of the year and/or run cool-down laps once in a while you can still have a very enjoyable track day.
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      09-20-2011, 08:57 AM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
I've been in an M3 that had to take a cool down lap in the middle of a session in the spring at Laguna Seca. It wasn't hot that day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 View Post
I have pics on this thread of an E90 M3's oil temps at 290F, after 3 laps on an 86 degree day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
A stock M3 is not a solution either. Agreed though that cooling the N54 for track duty is a more expensive ordeal.

Have a look at the M3 track forum, top thread right now is "Overheating at the track" with overheating reports within a few laps and 80F, and discussions on cooling mods...

I've tracked a 335 and M3 during the Summer in 95+ degree heat and both have done well for me. One thing I do is not red line it all the time and it seems to help a LOT for engine temps. In the 335 I'd keep the revs to under 6,000 and in the M3 under 7,000 most of the time around a track. If there's a stretch that needs me to stretch to the red, I'll do it, but if it's not necessary to redline, I'll shift a little early.
My tires would get greasy before the engine would overheat. I'm not the fastest in my group, but definitely pass a few groups too.

Having said that, I've seem someone in a 335 go limp with 2-3 hot laps. I don't know if BMW put in lower temp cut off's for limp modes in the newer cars since our 335 is a 2007 model with an Auto/Sport.

.
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Last edited by aus; 09-20-2011 at 05:52 PM.
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