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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Charcoal Delete and K&N Filter revisited. Your personal experience Please :)



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      10-25-2011, 12:16 PM   #1
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Charcoal Delete and K&N Filter revisited. Your personal experience Please :)

Been reading up on this and been wanting to do a charcoal delete & a K&N swap... I read numerous times that the prevalence of junk getting into my engine because of this would increase (and the charcoal delete can also F*)&# some of the engine ratios [what i mean by ratios is that the combustion could be off at least thats what some forum members have mentions; dont know the specific terms]) but what has your experience been? any problems?

Also, I know the US box uses a flat panel filter rather than a cylindrical shaped filter.. can I put a cylinder K&N filter into my car or do i have to get a Euro box? I sorta want a Euro box since cleaning the filter would be much easier (hopefully I could find it used somehow)
wow.. sorry for the crap ass post (dumb iphone app haha)
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Last edited by spacemonkey1112; 10-25-2011 at 12:45 PM.
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      10-25-2011, 12:18 PM   #2
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Im editing this post, since the thread was changed to something legible

This is the best intake setup for the N52, it offers the best response for the money you can get. Pair it with some Cyba scoops for something that functions great and costs under $150 for the entire setup. The engine performs better with this setup then the aFe, or stock box (tested both on dynos) and you get the most reliable curve out of the K&N + Charcoal + Scoops setup.

Last edited by Gavin@MMW; 10-25-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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      10-25-2011, 12:32 PM   #3
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Some claim the charcoal filter delete doesn't do anything for your car, and that the excess oil from the K&N can potentially damage your MAF sensor.
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      10-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamek View Post
Some claim the charcoal filter delete doesn't do anything for your car, and that the excess oil from the K&N can potentially damage your MAF sensor.
I use to have the K&N with charcoal delete...it was fine and to be honest i didnt notice anything different from stock, then swapped the K&N out for the $25 OEM paper filter and didnt notice a difference either, not with sound, revs or anything...I M O which means ( I N M Y O P I N I O N) I dont think K&N or paper makes a difference with the charcoal delete, If you can feel .0876 HP then by all means go for it...at least with the paper you dont have to worry about the mass air getting gunked up with oil like it did on my old mercedes, expensive day...
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      10-25-2011, 03:44 PM   #5
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I have done the Charcoal delete + K&N drop in.. it definitely makes a difference.. once you get up to around 5k rpm the intake makes noticeable deeper sound than stock. kinda sound like my friends E46 with a K&N intake. i did notice some response..I also ordered some scoops to add to the setup. Make sure to clean the MAF sensor when doing it, makes a big difference.
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      10-25-2011, 03:52 PM   #6
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It won't mess up your engine. There is a Maf sensor to monitor airflow. That will tell the engine how much air is being drawn into the intake manifold and that reading in combination with many others, will determine engine timing, valve lift, etc

If deleting the charcoal filter messed up the engine ratios BMW would be out of business. There are some many variables in the environment. If the engine was that sensitive, again BMW you be out of business.

I have a aFe oiled drop in, charcoal delete, and air silencer delete. Car runs great. A very slight increase in throttle response and sound.

The purpose of the carbon filter is to scrub the air that can leak back out after turning off the engine. Its an emissions thing. Has nothing to do with the performance of the car.
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      10-25-2011, 03:55 PM   #7
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only way knN will mess up ur maf sensor is if u use too much oil when you clean it...
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      10-25-2011, 05:11 PM   #8
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thanks for all your input, the maf sensor you are all talking about is the one that is attached around the intake hose correct? also, can someone link me to the appropriate K&N filter?
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      10-25-2011, 06:02 PM   #9
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I have RPI scoops and a K&N filter (no charcoal delete), you can fell a bit of a difference but not huge. Im happy with it
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      10-25-2011, 06:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ********* View Post
It won't mess up your engine. There is a Maf sensor to monitor airflow. That will tell the engine how much air is being drawn into the intake manifold and that reading in combination with many others, will determine engine timing, valve lift, etc

If deleting the charcoal filter messed up the engine ratios BMW would be out of business. There are some many variables in the environment. If the engine was that sensitive, again BMW you be out of business.

I have a aFe oiled drop in, charcoal delete, and air silencer delete. Car runs great. A very slight increase in throttle response and sound.

The purpose of the carbon filter is to scrub the air that can leak back out after turning off the engine. Its an emissions thing. Has nothing to do with the performance of the car.
+1 ^_^
OP: All the response that you've gotten here is spot on. I just did this, K&N filter drop in, charcoal filter delete, this weekend and tested the air volume CFM (cubic feet per minute) through both media surfaces (OEM paper together w/charcoal filter and the K&N).

Here are my findings:

1. OEM Paper Filter - 324 CFM (K&N claims,for comparison, average disposable filter 319 CMF)
2. OEM Paper Filter w/charcoal filter - 309 CFM
3. K&N filter (panel p/n 33-2332) - 453 CFM (K&N claims on the box 441 CFM but with a slightly different filter)

I have to say, I feel pretty confidant about the results.
Tools used: 24" long x 3" diameter PVC pipe, a 3" diameter nipple, utility knife, AirFlo Digital Meter, the filters above, garden leaf blower/vacuum, and the good old American Made Duct Tape .

Summary of the results:

1. If you go with charcoal delete and OEM paper filter = 5% approx. air flow gain. You will get some HP and/or TQ, but may not feel the difference. The same goes with any throttle response. (I'm thinking < 1 HP/TQ)
2. If you go with K&N drop in and charcoal delete = 47% approx. air flow gain. You will get around, speaking conservatively, 2-3 HP/TQ and more responsive throttle (I feel it throughout the RPM range and when you want to step on it, it listens). If I have to compare the throttle response to the BMS PBX, I would say up to 20% snappier throttle response.
***The HP/TQ estimates are at the crank*** Use 15%-20% loss at the wheels.
3. I also used CRC Mass Air Flow cleaner to clean the sensor prior to starting the car and wiped off some of the excess oil from the K&N filter, too.

Hope this helps.

Oh, and I forgot...CYBA SCOOPS "BLK" on order
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      10-25-2011, 06:34 PM   #11
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this should take care of your concern, K&N really dont give any meaningful gain. but consider its price and re-usability, its worth the money in my opinion.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132028
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      10-25-2011, 08:55 PM   #12
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I just installed a K&N and removed the charcoal filter last Saturday.

It seems it revs up a bit better in the lower range, but that could just be me.

All in all, the car seems to run great.
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      10-25-2011, 08:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin@MMW View Post
Im editing this post, since the thread was changed to something legible

This is the best intake setup for the N52, it offers the best response for the money you can get. Pair it with some Cyba scoops for something that functions great and costs under $150 for the entire setup. The engine performs better with this setup then the aFe, or stock box (tested both on dynos) and you get the most reliable curve out of the K&N + Charcoal + Scoops setup.
Are scoops really that effective on these things?
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      10-25-2011, 09:29 PM   #14
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I had an issue with my filter having to much oil right out of the box. Caused my engine to loose power. I had to clean my MAF sensor. Now that everything is cleaned and Ive had it for a few months, I cant say there is any difference what-so-ever.
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      10-25-2011, 10:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamek View Post
Some claim the charcoal filter delete doesn't do anything for your car
yep i dont feel any difference what so ever
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      10-25-2011, 10:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jntar View Post
I had an issue with my filter having to much oil right out of the box. Caused my engine to loose power. I had to clean my MAF sensor. Now that everything is cleaned and Ive had it for a few months, I cant say there is any difference what-so-ever.
My MPG went down miserably from the K&N oil right out of the box. I went from 16mpg back up to 23mpg within 3 tanks of gas, a maf cleaning, and a paper filter.
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      10-25-2011, 10:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branmace View Post
+1 ^_^
OP: All the response that you've gotten here is spot on. I just did this, K&N filter drop in, charcoal filter delete, this weekend and tested the air volume CFM (cubic feet per minute) through both media surfaces (OEM paper together w/charcoal filter and the K&N).

Here are my findings:

1. OEM Paper Filter - 324 CFM (K&N claims,for comparison, average disposable filter 319 CMF)
2. OEM Paper Filter w/charcoal filter - 309 CFM
3. K&N filter (panel p/n 33-2332) - 453 CFM (K&N claims on the box 441 CFM but with a slightly different filter)

I have to say, I feel pretty confidant about the results.
Tools used: 24" long x 3" diameter PVC pipe, a 3" diameter nipple, utility knife, AirFlo Digital Meter, the filters above, garden leaf blower/vacuum, and the good old American Made Duct Tape .

Summary of the results:

1. If you go with charcoal delete and OEM paper filter = 5% approx. air flow gain. You will get some HP and/or TQ, but may not feel the difference. The same goes with any throttle response. (I'm thinking < 1 HP/TQ)
2. If you go with K&N drop in and charcoal delete = 47% approx. air flow gain. You will get around, speaking conservatively, 2-3 HP/TQ and more responsive throttle (I feel it throughout the RPM range and when you want to step on it, it listens). If I have to compare the throttle response to the BMS PBX, I would say up to 20% snappier throttle response.
***The HP/TQ estimates are at the crank*** Use 15%-20% loss at the wheels.
3. I also used CRC Mass Air Flow cleaner to clean the sensor prior to starting the car and wiped off some of the excess oil from the K&N filter, too.

Hope this helps.

Oh, and I forgot...CYBA SCOOPS "BLK" on order
You provided a lot of numbers, but can you provide a source or let us know where you derived these "estimates" from?

Tricking yourself into believing that you're gaining performance from these mods is different than actually gaining performance from these mods.

You're also stating that all of the responses here are correct, but they're mixed reviews. Even ********* said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ********* View Post
The purpose of the carbon filter is to scrub the air that can leak back out after turning off the engine. Its an emissions thing. Has nothing to do with the performance of the car.
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      10-25-2011, 10:54 PM   #18
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You gotta take it on the highway to notice the difference.. i did some runs on the highway and the car seem more "Smooth". Give it a couple days. i just got some scoops and that made a good combo with the K&N and charcoal delete. My car runs better then ever!
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      10-26-2011, 05:08 AM   #19
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Had some questions as to how to clean the MAF sensor? and tips? How did you do it?
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      10-26-2011, 05:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemonkey1112 View Post
Had some questions as to how to clean the MAF sensor? and tips? How did you do it?
Take it out and hose it down with MAF sensor cleaner from Autozone/Advance Autoparts. Reinstall, and voila, clean.
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      10-26-2011, 06:31 AM   #21
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based on the numbers above it seems the charcoal filter has very little effect on air flow. is the charcoal filter behind the air filter? Perhaps leave it in so it would block any oil from a K&N filter from fouling the MAF
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      10-26-2011, 08:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbr View Post
based on the numbers above it seems the charcoal filter has very little effect on air flow. is the charcoal filter behind the air filter? Perhaps leave it in so it would block any oil from a K&N filter from fouling the MAF
Yes the charcoal is behind the regular air filer...
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