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      10-28-2011, 05:34 PM   #1
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Ohlins Road & Track e90 spring rates - they look strange to me, what do you think ?

Hi,

I asked Ohlins about their Road & Track suspension spring rates and they gave me the following information:

Front: 400 lb/in (70N/mm)
Rear: 343 lb/in (60N/mm)

I am no expert in spring rates, but from what I read on this forum, the rear spring rate is really low, this means that the rear springs are soft. What do you think ? I am thinking of getting a good suspension setup like the Ohlins and as I am trying to learn more about the spring rates, this setup comes up as surprising compared to others.
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      10-28-2011, 05:52 PM   #2
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That is insanely low for the rear..front looks spot on.

Contact Harold at www.hpashop.com

He sells these and will know for sure..but I dont think that figure is correct for the rear
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      10-28-2011, 10:34 PM   #3
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The Ohlins R&T with Swift Springs would be a great combo. Harold will work with you on this.
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      10-29-2011, 01:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacka View Post
The Ohlins R&T with Swift Springs would be a great combo. Harold will work with you on this.
I have that combo now. When I talked to Ohlins, they suggested I try the set before upgrading anything. As I was getting the m3 bushings, LSD and bits, I went straight with swift 400/800 combo on my ohlins.

OP, if you decide to go this route, talk to Harold and when ordering the swift springs, don't go with the 10" rears, go 8s. I went with the 10's and made my car sit too high even on the lowest settings. As per ohlin, you do not have to revalve either.
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      10-29-2011, 09:24 AM   #5
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I am not planning to get Swift springs, if I get the Ohlins suspension I will try to get the springs from Ohlins too, especially given the fact that they can deliver any spring rates.

But I'm still wondering, why would Ohlins choose these spring rates in the rear ?

PS: I am looking for suspension that is good for drag racing and street, not circuit driving. If it's soft, its ok but I want it to be "balanced".
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      10-31-2011, 06:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badass335 View Post
I have that combo now. When I talked to Ohlins, they suggested I try the set before upgrading anything. As I was getting the m3 bushings, LSD and bits, I went straight with swift 400/800 combo on my ohlins.

OP, if you decide to go this route, talk to Harold and when ordering the swift springs, don't go with the 10" rears, go 8s. I went with the 10's and made my car sit too high even on the lowest settings. As per ohlin, you do not have to revalve either.
400F and 800R is more ideal. The extra low rear rate is great for the ride quality and traction, but the vehicle will understeer and you can never get the backend to rotate as much as you would like it to.

It would be the 9" Swift for the back of the E9x.

We like to use the higher quality Swift springs along with thrust sheets.

A photo below with Swift springs, thrust sheets, and the more robust height adjusters.
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Last edited by HP Autosport; 10-31-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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      11-02-2011, 07:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
400F and 800R is more ideal. The extra low rear rate is great for the ride quality and traction, but the vehicle will understeer and you can never get the backend to rotate as much as you would like it to.

It would be the 9" Swift for the back of the E9x.

We like to use the higher quality Swift springs along with thrust sheets.

A photo below with Swift springs, thrust sheets, and the more robust height adjusters.
Its time for me to go the same route. Its good you tried the swift setup, as we discussed months ago before I bought the Ohlins kit. those spring rates are ridiculous ;]
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      11-02-2011, 08:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
A photo below with Swift springs, thrust sheets, and the more robust height adjusters.
could you PM me the price for the springs/thrust sheets/height adjusters ?
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      11-02-2011, 11:37 AM   #9
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fwiw, those rear rates are softer than stock rear zsp rates, which are 460 lb/in. The shock compression damping may be able to account for this somewhat, but generally, you don't want softer rear springs than stock, especially if you are going stiffer than stock in the front.
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      11-02-2011, 12:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
Hi,

I asked Ohlins about their Road & Track suspension spring rates and they gave me the following information:

Front: 400 lb/in (70N/mm)
Rear: 343 lb/in (60N/mm)

I am no expert in spring rates, but from what I read on this forum, the rear spring rate is really low, this means that the rear springs are soft. What do you think ? I am thinking of getting a good suspension setup like the Ohlins and as I am trying to learn more about the spring rates, this setup comes up as surprising compared to others.
Spring rates are not everything either. It also depends which kinds of other modifications you have made so far to your suspension, and where you want to drive your car.

In my case, just to give an example, I know that I'll be tracking the car mostly on the Nürburgring which is far from flat and has lots of bumps. For such a circuit, a high spring rate is counterproductive as it will unsettle the car, and you may actually be faster with the spring rate the set comes with.

I'll also go with the Öhlins next spring, and will test first the original spring rate before making any modifications.

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      02-23-2012, 06:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciomas View Post
Its time for me to go the same route. Its good you tried the swift setup, as we discussed months ago before I bought the Ohlins kit. those spring rates are ridiculous ;]
How is the Ohlins after the Swift springs upgrade?
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      02-24-2012, 05:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
How is the Ohlins after the Swift springs upgrade?
Im still trying to sort out a problem with the brakes so Ive been putting off the proper review untill all is good and I can really push it.. also at the track.

However, very briefly I need to admit it is a big improvement. Especialy with the rear. Just to give everyone a sense of how soft the ohlins suplied springs were - I did experience rubbing in the back with a 15mm spacer !
unacceptable!

When on old springs, I had the suspension set at 3/4 on the stiffer side. It proved to be a bit too rough with new swift springs (392/784) on a daily basis. It is set right in the middle of the scale now and feels just right.

I have also replaced the rear subframe rubber and front suspension parts for 'M' ones. That together with the spring update greatly improves your connection with the road surface. And it doesnt happen in an uncomfortable way. (Harold you should be selling this as a set! )

Personaly I am happy with the ride quality and I know I will be stiffening up the suspension a little bit for the track - probably 3/4 on the stiff side again. However if one has a very delicate and sensitive bottom (or a wife/girlfriend with one) a 336/672 combo might be sufficient.

Bottom line: Ohlins+Swift is a great match! But do expect a more detailed review once my brakes allow me to put the suspension to a more versatile test.

Harold, thanks putting up with me and all the questions again!
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      02-24-2012, 01:53 PM   #13
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are all you guys running the ohlins, using camber plates as well?
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      02-24-2012, 05:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciomas View Post
Im still trying to sort out a problem with the brakes so Ive been putting off the proper review untill all is good and I can really push it.. also at the track.

However, very briefly I need to admit it is a big improvement. Especialy with the rear. Just to give everyone a sense of how soft the ohlins suplied springs were - I did experience rubbing in the back with a 15mm spacer !
unacceptable!

When on old springs, I had the suspension set at 3/4 on the stiffer side. It proved to be a bit too rough with new swift springs (392/784) on a daily basis. It is set right in the middle of the scale now and feels just right.

I have also replaced the rear subframe rubber and front suspension parts for 'M' ones. That together with the spring update greatly improves your connection with the road surface. And it doesnt happen in an uncomfortable way. (Harold you should be selling this as a set! )

Personaly I am happy with the ride quality and I know I will be stiffening up the suspension a little bit for the track - probably 3/4 on the stiff side again. However if one has a very delicate and sensitive bottom (or a wife/girlfriend with one) a 336/672 combo might be sufficient.

Bottom line: Ohlins+Swift is a great match! But do expect a more detailed review once my brakes allow me to put the suspension to a more versatile test.

Harold, thanks putting up with me and all the questions again!
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It's great to hear some feedback on the Ohlins R&T and Swift springs combo.

As much as I love to sell the Ohlins kit this way, it also increases the price and is not for everyone's wallet. Some are actually okay with just the out of the box kit. Although most opt for the upgrade right away or after a track day or two. If Ohlins would supply the struts and dampers only, I can then price this kit reasonably for the community.
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      02-25-2012, 08:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
It's great to hear some feedback on the Ohlins R&T and Swift springs combo.

As much as I love to sell the Ohlins kit this way, it also increases the price and is not for everyone's wallet. Some are actually okay with just the out of the box kit. Although most opt for the upgrade right away or after a track day or two. If Ohlins would supply the struts and dampers only, I can then price this kit reasonably for the community.
ehhh, from what I hear form 'Birds' they are quite difficult to work with, at least in europe. Kevin Bird was trying to develop a custom setup with them wich meant they would have to supply the dampers already revalved to his custom specification but from what I know that never worked out..Kevin still uses Bistein which is an inferior solution in my oppinion.
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      02-25-2012, 12:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
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ehhh, from what I hear form 'Birds' they are quite difficult to work with, at least in europe. Kevin Bird was trying to develop a custom setup with them wich meant they would have to supply the dampers already revalved to his custom specification but from what I know that never worked out..Kevin still uses Bistein which is an inferior solution in my oppinion.
Bilstein will not measure up to the Ohlins unless some changes are made internally and use true coilover type springs.

We have tried the same with Ohlins USA to buy only the struts and dampers only to be used with Swift springs and our hardware, but without any luck. However, I was told this may change down the road so there is hope.

KW is the same way, but even tougher to work with. In addition, they actually took our idea and made kits of their own and try to make us buy them...NO WAY! They are still wondering to this date why those kits don't sell! People want Swift springs with the option to choose their own spring rates, not an off of the shelf kit with KW springs.

AST and Koni are great to work with to get struts and dampers in just about any configuration with or without springs. Moton and JRZ are very easy to work with as well since most of the dampers are custom anyway.
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      02-25-2012, 08:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
Bilstein will not measure up to the Ohlins unless some changes are made internally and use true coilover type springs.

We have tried the same with Ohlins USA to buy only the struts and dampers only to be used with Swift springs and our hardware, but without any luck. However, I was told this may change down the road so there is hope.

KW is the same way, but even tougher to work with. In addition, they actually took our idea and made kits of their own and try to make us buy them...NO WAY! They are still wondering to this date why those kits don't sell! People want Swift springs with the option to choose their own spring rates, not an off of the shelf kit with KW springs.

AST and Koni are great to work with to get struts and dampers in just about any configuration with or without springs. Moton and JRZ are very easy to work with as well since most of the dampers are custom anyway.
I went to Autosport Intenational this year, mainly to visit the guys at Forge after they've done some dovelopment on my car But I also spoke to some suspension manufacturers including an Ohlins representative. From what I see they dont even know a problem exists. Once a kit is released they expect everyone to be happy with it...dont seem to be following the feedback and oppinions. Ben Fricker, the guy from BG Motorsport at Silverstone was actualy quite keen on discussing it more to report back to Ohlins. I migth go and see them at some point...maybe have the dampers revalved as well. But for now Im very happy with my setup....well, if it wasnt for the bloody brakes of course..
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      02-28-2012, 04:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciomas View Post
Im still trying to sort out a problem with the brakes so Ive been putting off the proper review untill all is good and I can really push it.. also at the track.

However, very briefly I need to admit it is a big improvement. Especialy with the rear. Just to give everyone a sense of how soft the ohlins suplied springs were - I did experience rubbing in the back with a 15mm spacer !
unacceptable!

When on old springs, I had the suspension set at 3/4 on the stiffer side. It proved to be a bit too rough with new swift springs (392/784) on a daily basis. It is set right in the middle of the scale now and feels just right.
Thanks for your thoughts on this, that is quite interesting.

I've only got the Öhlins kit installed a few weeks ago and haven't been able to drive much (and my car has been in the garage again for two weeks lately), let alone get it onto a track. But so far the out-of-the-box version of it seems really fine. It's much more comfortable than the Bilstein B16 I had previously, while still being fantastic in handling. Totally unperturbed if you throw it into corners fast or do some quick manoeuvres involving direction changes. For now I don't feel that I have to upgrade the rear springs in particular, but we'll see in a few months once I've been to the track a few times.

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      02-28-2012, 08:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
Thanks for your thoughts on this, that is quite interesting.

I've only got the Öhlins kit installed a few weeks ago and haven't been able to drive much (and my car has been in the garage again for two weeks lately), let alone get it onto a track. But so far the out-of-the-box version of it seems really fine. It's much more comfortable than the Bilstein B16 I had previously, while still being fantastic in handling. Totally unperturbed if you throw it into corners fast or do some quick manoeuvres involving direction changes. For now I don't feel that I have to upgrade the rear springs in particular, but we'll see in a few months once I've been to the track a few times.

Alpina_B3_Lux

I know I've been promising you a review a while ago, but I wanted to wait untill I had some more answers to my own questions

Are you planning to go to the ring track day organised by Dino? (16 June?)
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      02-28-2012, 08:20 AM   #20
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I know I've been promising you a review a while ago, but I wanted to wait untill I had some more answers to my own questions

Are you planning to go to the ring track day organised by Dino? (16 June?)
Yes, definitely. Also the one in August (20th I think?). It's only half a day each time though, unfortunately. I'll also be driving on the 'Ring on some other times, normal Touristenfahrten during the week when I have the time and the weather is good.

Will you come too then in June?

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      02-28-2012, 08:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
How is the Ohlins after the Swift springs upgrade?
Harold, which front/rear combo were you advising me to get, do you remember? 784 in the rear seems a bit high for me, I believe you recommended a slightly lower spring rate.

Just to remember in case I will go down this route.

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      02-28-2012, 11:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
Harold, which front/rear combo were you advising me to get, do you remember? 784 in the rear seems a bit high for me, I believe you recommended a slightly lower spring rate.

Just to remember in case I will go down this route.

Alpina_B3_Lux
Right around 336F and 672R.
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