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      09-22-2011, 07:44 AM   #23
RagingKileak
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Indeed.

Bottom line is that if you bend it, you bought it. Unless someone else bends you, or you bend them, in which case you attempt to drag whatever you can from them, or attempt to avoid coughing up anything in return.

Like Mega said really, it's not a playground and there are risks, with very hefty consequences when you do fuck up.

HOWEVER, I should say that I had all these concerns the first time round and to mitigate that, I bought an E36 M3. I didn't bend it, crash it or damage anyone else (although I did nearly reverse into a 911 in the car park but that's just life) and as a result, there were no consequences.

I/we can't help the rules I'm afraid so you will all have to check your plums and decide whether its worth the risk or not. I'm 99% sure I will be taking the Golf and I am about 50% sure I won't be enhancing my insurance or purchasing track day cover in any way for the event.

Granted, that's a risk, but as my car is worth about 13k (of which perhaps 5k could be stripped in aftermarket parts, depending on if they survive) and most insurers would only cover beyond about an 8k excess, it seems pointless to me to insure it unless I find a great deal.

You only live once Gents.

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      09-22-2011, 08:51 AM   #24
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By the way the Nurburgring is no longer a "public toll road". It is now a private track. This is why they are able to link the GP circuit and the Northloop on certain days now. This changed last year.
I do not know from where you have this information but - at least from a German perspective - this is not correct.

It may very well be that the British insurance companies treat it as if it were a race track or explicitly exclude it in their policies, but the 'Ring always was and still remains part of public traffic in Germany (as a one-way toll road). At least for the Touristenfahrten and track days - this is of course different for races.

This also applies to the Grand Prix circuit or any other race track such as the Hockenheimring. Which is why the reasoning is not any different if you link the Nordschleife with the GP circuit (the so-called VLN variant).

BTW, the 'Ring (as in the real estate) belongs to the Bundesland Rheinland-Pfalz (i.e. the federal state in Germany where it is situated), together with the local municipality (Landkreis Ahrweiler) and is rented out to the Nürburgring Automotive GmbH.

Under the following link you can find a very helpful compilation of FAQ (in English): Nürburgring - Love the Ring - FAQ (UK). I quote the following with respect to British insurance problems:

Question:
Most UK insurers (if not ALL) now specifically exclude TF on the Nurburgring from their coverage. Whilst they are legally obliged to provide third party cover it is common to recover those costs from the policyholder. How are you going to solve the massive problem of British drivers, who bring a large portion of custom to the Nurburgring, driving without third party insurance on the Nurburgring?

Answer:
Up until 2010 there was one German insurer that provided third-party cover specifically for British drivers. Unfortunately, this offer was rarely used and so it was withdrawn. We are well aware of the problem, and since we continue to expect a substantial demand in the future, we are currently negotiating with a major German insurance provider in order to close this gap. Unfortunately, this will take some time to be finalised. Until then, the Nürburgring can only advise British drivers to enquire with a number of British insurance companies. It is particularly important here to mention that the driving will be on a race course under German road traffic regulations – not as part of a race.

Personally I would not recommend to drive on the 'Ring without insurance. At least not with a car that you need or that is comparatively expensive. Even with a minor accident - which does not even need to be your own fault - costs can pile up very, very quickly (on your own car, or for the damage to Nürburgring property).

The link posted by Tony only covers the damages that can incure to the 'Ring's property because of the accident - damage to the armco, cleaning of the track, closure of the track due to the accident, and towing costs. Even with a minor accident this can easily mount up to several thousand GBP (one meter of armco costs I think around 800 EUR only), and I would absolutely recommend subscribing for this.

Now, I don't want to scare anyone away - if you drive sensibly and carefully (which you should do in particular if you have done less than 100 laps on the 'Ring and therefor have no clear idea how you should drive it), the risks for an accident are not very high. But due to the fact that - opposed to other tracks as the GP circuit or Hockenheimring or such - the Nordschleife has no spinout zones at all and is a very fast track, most of the more severe driving errors end up in damage and contact with the armco.

Which is why it would be my recommendation to (i) make sure yourself and your car are insured, (ii) do a few laps together with someone who knows the track and (iii) never, ever go faster than you feel absolutely comfortable with. Only two weeks ago a driver in front of me did not respect (iii) and shredded his Corvette at around 140 km/h. Not pretty!

I would be delighted to participate in your 'Ring trip, of course. Great initiative, Matt and Ant - and I'm already looking forward to seeing you there. I'll also be at your disposal to guide people around the track, i.e. do passenger laps or drive in front of them with radios.

As for where to stay - the Mercure in Koblenz is a good place as it has reasonable prices, a garage and is quite comfortable. The disadvantage being that it is a bit further away, of course. Other alternatives are the Dorint right at the 'Ring, where I've stayed twice this year and which, if you book it a bit in advance, has quite reasonable rates; very modern and comfortable.

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      09-22-2011, 09:17 AM   #25
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Thanks Marcel - looking forward to seeing you there.

What Marcel has done is capture what I could not. Which is a clear message - be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best.

I'm not going to bring fate down on us by saying anything about how little trouble I have seen amongst my own group at the Ring, but needless to say there hasn't been anything to put me off.

The only person I actually know who crashed badly was a total knobber who I took offence to from the moment I met him. I know of one other minor incident which luckily did happen somewhere which had a run off and resulted in car damage only, but it was down to overexuberance.

With that in mind and bearing in mind Marcel's message, I would reiterate that you shouldn't think of a day at the Ring as a full 8 hours of hard, oppressive driving. It's very relaxed and you are likely to do 5-10 laps in a good day, with lots of breaks and chatting in between, as well as drives with passengers or as a passenger to break up the day and help you learn.

As a result, I urge anyone pondering to consider the above and think of this trip as more than just a 'load of racing round a track.' Its very much a social event in a lovely setting with some beautiful scenery, excellent camaraderie and good food and drink. There is lots to see and there will be some rare cars in the car park at some point (Gumpert Apollo when I was there) with owners who are usually more than happy to lap up the attention.

You could probably go, have some passenger laps and see some sights and never take your car out and it would be 75% of the fun.... Maybe 65%...

Anyway, I'll leave it up to you all to decide, but at least you now have the facts!

Regards
Matt
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      09-22-2011, 09:33 AM   #26
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As a result, I urge anyone pondering to consider the above and think of this trip as more than just a 'load of racing round a track.' Its very much a social event in a lovely setting with some beautiful scenery, excellent camaraderie and good food and drink.
Absolutely. The socializing is at least as much fun as the driving - and it would be great if some of you could also bring their girlfriends/boyfriends/wives with you, that always contributed immensely to the fun we had. Mine will be there of course. And maybe even do a few laps herself.

It's still a while until June next year, and we have to wait for the opening times of the 'Ring anyway to choose definite dates, but it would be great to see as many of you as possible.

Maybe Tone could bring some beef Wellingtons for nourishment during the drive?

So, let's make a list:
  • RagingKileak (Matt) + 1 (Golf GTI)
  • Ant + wife (E46 M3)
  • Alpina_B3_Lux + Batgirl (335i)
  • Allun (Kawasaki Ninja)
  • MEGA (320d)

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      09-22-2011, 09:35 AM   #27
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cant wait to go back !
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      09-22-2011, 10:02 AM   #28
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I'd also like to request that this be made a Sticky please Tone/Vivian.

Regards
Matt
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      09-22-2011, 12:22 PM   #29
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Err obviously......
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      09-22-2011, 12:30 PM   #30
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      09-26-2011, 01:53 AM   #31
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Just a quick heads up. I believe the n24 is the weekend of the 9th 10th June next year and, while a brilliant event (i went this year - totally mad), in terms of finding accommodation, getting on track etc etc it might be a little busy. The German fans start arriving a week before the event to build their encampments and by the Thursday this year the place was heaving. I suspect there will also be lots of qualifying etc for the various races that will be taking place so not sure how open the track will be.

Worth double checking..
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      09-26-2011, 05:19 AM   #32
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I am for going again deffo. But prob not that weekend 9/10 I'm racing.

Have not been to the ring since Aug 09.
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      09-26-2011, 05:25 AM   #33
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I am for going again deffo. But prob not that weekend 9/10 I'm racing.

Have not been to the ring since Aug 09.
Time flies eh!

If things pick up in time, I still want to take the bus over.
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      09-26-2011, 05:49 AM   #34
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I am for going again deffo. But prob not that weekend 9/10 I'm racing.

Have not been to the ring since Aug 09.
Then it's about time you went again!

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      09-26-2011, 06:11 AM   #35
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Time flies eh!

If things pick up in time, I still want to take the bus over.
Time does fly eh mate I agree madness ain't it.
Quote:
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Then it's about time you went again!

Alpina_B3_Lux
I think your right Marcel!
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      09-26-2011, 10:20 AM   #36
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I want to go but not sure what I'll be driving then. Loved it last time.
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      09-29-2011, 09:04 AM   #37
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RagingKileak (Matt)+ 1 (GolfGTI)
Ant + wife(E46M3)
Alpina_B3_Lux + Batgirl(335i)
Allun (Kawasaki Ninja)
MEGA (320d)
jimmylimmy+2(335d/E46M3/VXR8)
Jas (Megane R26)

A friend of mine (Jas) now added.

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      10-13-2011, 03:56 AM   #38
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hmm I think depends on finances due to the new arrival but might be interested. On my last trip I stayed in the Altes ForstHaust Ringhaus.

Nice simply rooms , but very clean and next door to the ring highly recomend it.

Provisionally count me in, I wouls ay if you want to go but worried about running your car then hire one, even the suzuki switft can be a good fun.
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      11-06-2011, 03:52 PM   #39
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Lap prices are up again for 2012.

1 lap: €26
4 laps: €95
25 laps: €490
Jahreskarte (year pass): €1445

So in 2011 we lost the 8 lap pass and now we've lost the 15 lap one too.

The 'ring management really is taking the piss with pricing for TF days now.

Better off going on a private trackday. Circa £400 - £500 for a day of unlimited laps, cars only, use of the full Dottinger Hohe straight and due to the track discipline of the attendees you should see a full day with limited (or even none/no) closures.

You can do more laps in that one day on a closed trackday than you could on a full weekend of public opening.
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      11-06-2011, 04:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino355 View Post
Lap prices are up again for 2012.

1 lap: €26
4 laps: €95
25 laps: €490
Jahreskarte (year pass): €1445

So in 2011 we lost the 8 lap pass and now we've lost the 15 lap one too.

The 'ring management really is taking the piss with pricing for TF days now.

Better off going on a private trackday. Circa £400 - £500 for a day of unlimited laps, cars only, use of the full Dottinger Hohe straight and due to the track discipline of the attendees you should see a full day with limited (or even none/no) closures.

You can do more laps in that one day on a closed trackday than you could on a full weekend of public opening.

Dino

You're quite right - private trackdays are looking more appealing for those wanting to do many laps but don't want to buy a Jahreskarte. However for those who just want to do a few laps a trackday might be a bit too 'serious' for them. Also your trackday packages are all weekdays I assume?

What package can you put together for forum members on here?
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      11-06-2011, 05:23 PM   #41
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Tony

I don't have any pricing (or dates for that matter!) for 2012 just yet. My website will be updated as and when events and pricing are confirmed.

This year we offered a couple of other forums group discounts on trackdays on the following basis:

Quote:
£459 standard price
£429 per car for 5+cars,
£409 per car for 10+cars
£389 per car for 15+
Expect something similar for 2012

Quote:
· FREE 2nd driver
· Exclusive use of T13 pit area for nurburgringuk.com customers (sometimes date dependant)
· Full use of Dottinger Hohe straight for flying laps
· Discounted rates for group buys
· Limited numbers (150 total cars on each event MAX)
· Road legal cars ONLY
· We are the longest running established Nurburgring events & tour operator – since 1998 with strong links with the local community
· English safety briefing by Dale Lomas, Nurburgring Instructor at Rent4Ring

Last edited by Dino355; 03-14-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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      11-08-2011, 06:38 AM   #42
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do we know when the opening time are posted ?
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      11-08-2011, 06:39 AM   #43
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Anytime between December and March!
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      11-11-2011, 10:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino355 View Post
Lap prices are up again for 2012.

1 lap: €26
4 laps: €95
25 laps: €490
Jahreskarte (year pass): €1445

So in 2011 we lost the 8 lap pass and now we've lost the 15 lap one too.

The 'ring management really is taking the piss with pricing for TF days now.

Better off going on a private trackday. Circa £400 - £500 for a day of unlimited laps, cars only, use of the full Dottinger Hohe straight and due to the track discipline of the attendees you should see a full day with limited (or even none/no) closures.

You can do more laps in that one day on a closed trackday than you could on a full weekend of public opening.
Quite annoying that the prices have gone up so much again, and options have been removed.

Annoying as well because anyone with some interest in the 'Ring knows that they've done that because they sunk so much cash into the useless bunkers called Ringwerk etc. that nobody visits, that they need to milk other venues as much as possible. Without of course improving the infrastructure - for example building proper and bigger parking lots at the Nordschleife which are sorely needed.

Just for info: Until the end of this year you can still buy laps for 2012 with the prices of 2011. Could be a good option for those who already know they'll go to the 'Ring next year anyway. More details on the website of the Nürburgring.

Alpina_B3_Lux
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