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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > AFR Comparo (Procede/JB4/Cobb)



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      11-17-2011, 09:00 AM   #89
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      11-17-2011, 11:53 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn335i View Post
lol

So what's the point of posting data if no one knows what is better?

Should have posted some instead. Then we would at least have fun to find the best ones
...maybe there is no better.
What are we in 3rd grade. My backpack is better cause its red....

All this thread proves is how childish the e90 community is with receiving data and has to turn it into a war and pissing contest everytime.
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      11-17-2011, 12:13 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54 View Post
All this thread proves is how childish the e90 community is with receiving data and has to turn it into a war and pissing contest everytime.
Really? Come on man... we didn't start this thread and we didn't derail it.

Let's see some runs + logs from cars on pump gas. After all, that's where most people still are.
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      11-17-2011, 12:19 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54 View Post
...maybe there is no better.
What are we in 3rd grade. My backpack is better cause its red....

All this thread proves is how childish the e90 community is with receiving data and has to turn it into a war and pissing contest everytime.
Huh? That graph only shows half the picture. You call that "data"? I can make a whole bunch of graphs for you right now, but without the other half of the story, then it's pointless.

That graph shows the procede dropping AFR earlier than the cobb and jb4. Thats great, and I hope it did. Looking at the logs show the whole story, car to car, tune to tune. Whats wrong with that?
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      11-17-2011, 12:26 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
* What does team Vishnu consider lean AFR for N54? Why?
* What does team Vishnu consider rich AFR for N54? Why?
Still no answer?
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      11-17-2011, 12:32 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Still no answer?
Whatever AFR the PROcede hits on each individual log is correct apparantly
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      11-17-2011, 12:40 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I can only imagine the response if I had posted the dyno numbers. Seems like some are able to process info without claiming foul for some reason or another.
POST AWAY SIR!!!!!!!!!!!
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      11-17-2011, 01:11 PM   #96
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      11-17-2011, 02:39 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Huh? That graph only shows half the picture. You call that "data"? I can make a whole bunch of graphs for you right now, but without the other half of the story, then it's pointless.

That graph shows the procede dropping AFR earlier than the cobb and jb4. Thats great, and I hope it did. Looking at the logs show the whole story, car to car, tune to tune. Whats wrong with that?
Its an Air fuel graph of a 4th gear pull from 3 different tunes with similar modifications. What do you want a log of? boost? Ignition? Like it matters? Cause it wont. If you think so then you dont understand anything about tuning.

All you guys want is more data so you can knit pick every detail, why? Cause thats all you guys do.... bicker about the details.

How does your car run? If it runs great then who cares about some dumb air fuel graph from some joe schmoes car. Its not your car is it?

Seriously..... wow.
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      11-17-2011, 02:45 PM   #98
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^ He has a point. Why are we worried about someone elses car? Shouldnt we be logging our own cars and worrying about ourselves on a personal car to car basis?
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      11-17-2011, 02:52 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54 View Post
Its an Air fuel graph of a 4th gear pull from 3 different tunes with similar modifications. What do you want a log of? boost? Ignition? Like it matters? Cause it wont. If you think so then you dont understand anything about tuning.

All you guys want is more data so you can knit pick every detail, why? Cause thats all you guys do.... bicker about the details.

How does your car run? If it runs great then who cares about some dumb air fuel graph from some joe schmoes car. Its not your car is it?

Seriously..... wow.
Hi Mr. Grumpy. I think its fine asking for further info… hopefully anyone on the dyno is also logging. Great picture when you can match the parameters to hp and compare WB to logged AFR. I’m now thinking of going a little leaner so further confirmation that my logs equal actual is good to know. Yeah my car behaves differently then others, but probably a little closer comparison to another n54 w/ tune and similar bolt ons, then my truck. Imagine the progress of the platform if no body communicated and only worried about their owns cars and data.
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      11-17-2011, 02:54 PM   #100
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lol that this is a presentation of "facts" when the procede is running meth
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      11-17-2011, 02:56 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Still no answer?
I tried to keep my contribution to this thread as factual as possible. Offering opinions as to what is "good" or "bad" isn't the goal here. Especially considering that there is nothing "bad" to report in these results.

It's only a few users who are getting upset about something. And I'm pretty sure they don't even know what they are getting upset about. They just like to turn everything into a debate. We are looking at AFR logs guys. That's it
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      11-17-2011, 03:04 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I tried to keep my contribution to this thread as factual as possible. Offering opinions as to what is "good" or "bad" isn't the goal here. Especially considering that there is nothing "bad" to report in these results.

It's only a few users who are getting upset about something. And I'm pretty sure they don't even know what they are getting upset about. They just like to turn everything into a debate. We are looking at AFR logs guys. That's it
Shiv, vas isnt "upset." He's just asking what you consider to be a rich/lean AFR on an N54 to be, which is a fair question on a thread about AFR logs. I, among many others, look to you and the other tuners on what we should be seeing/expect. Let me ask this directly: at peak torque what is your opinion on what the AFR should be?
I hate all the politics and BS that these threads create, i just want to learn as much as i can. Enjoy your tune and drive safely.
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      11-17-2011, 03:06 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54 View Post
Its an Air fuel graph of a 4th gear pull from 3 different tunes with similar modifications. What do you want a log of? boost? Ignition? Like it matters? Cause it wont. If you think so then you dont understand anything about tuning.

All you guys want is more data so you can knit pick every detail, why? Cause thats all you guys do.... bicker about the details.

How does your car run? If it runs great then who cares about some dumb air fuel graph from some joe schmoes car. Its not your car is it?

Seriously..... wow.
You have to relax.

I did not come in here to flame, nor have I said anything detremental here in quite a while. Do you understand the rarity of having 3 cars, 3 tunes on the same dyno, on the same day, same conditions? I dont think you do. It's nice to look at, and see them compare. Where did I say X tune sucks and Y tune is better because of so and so? No where. It's like saying "Well, no point in watching the game if I know the outcome." You dont like watching plays?

I have plenty of procede logs. And a few JB logs. And no Cobb logs. I know how the procede reacts to conditions. In this instance, conditions were consistant. Why cant I see how the Cobb faired in comparison?

The logs show everything. Shiv knows that, and the procede did very well. Thats why he didnt hesitate to offer to post them (later on). I dont see what your problem is.
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      11-17-2011, 03:06 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi to e90 View Post
lol that this is a presentation of "facts" when the procede is running meth
When the Procede running meth is a factual statement in the first post, i think this still counts as factual data.

It's not often you get 3 similarly modified cars, on the same dyno, on the same day. So the data was presented. If you want to look at a Procede+DCI car making running on PUMP gas (not meth), you can look at these results (dyno and log) here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=612243

The were also taken on the same day. But the car was running 92oct (not 100). And on a different dyno, in a different state, in very different testing conditions. But the AFR graphs are similar. Not surprising since all the Aggressive maps have the same AFR target tables. Meth or not, it doesn't matter.
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      11-17-2011, 03:09 PM   #105
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Shiv, vas isnt "upset." He's just asking what you consider to be a rich/lean AFR on an N54 to be, which is a fair question on a thread about AFR logs.
True! That's all I wanted.

Rader1, I don't think shiv was referring to me as being upset either. All is good. I just wanted to understand what team Vishnu considers rich and lean AFR for this engine and most importantly, why. I can also understand him not wanting to share details of their philosophy when it comes to AFRs in public.
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      11-17-2011, 03:11 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
When the Procede running meth is a factual statement in the first post, i think this still counts as factual data.

It's not often you get 3 similarly modified cars, on the same dyno, on the same day. So the data was presented. If you want to look at a Procede+DCI car making running on PUMP gas (not meth), you can look at these results (dyno and log) here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=612243

The were also taken on the same day. But the car was running 92oct (not 100). And on a different dyno, in a different state, in very different testing conditions. But the AFR graphs are similar. Not surprising since all the Aggressive maps have the same AFR target tables. Meth or not, it doesn't matter.
SHiv,where the graphs I asked for??
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      11-17-2011, 03:15 PM   #107
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SHiv,where the graphs I asked for??
I don't feel posting up power/tq graphs is going to be fair given that the Procede was running meth while the others were running only 100oct. When it comes to power/tq, meth is going to be a big contributor. It's only with AFR data, that meth doesn't come into play. Which is why I only posted up an AFR comparison.

Shiv
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      11-17-2011, 03:30 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I don't feel posting up power/tq graphs is going to be fair given that the Procede was running meth while the others were running only 100oct. When it comes to power/tq, meth is going to be a big contributor. It's only with AFR data, that meth doesn't come into play. Which is why I only posted up an AFR comparison.

Shiv
I think were all curious to see how they look like..Please post..
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      11-17-2011, 03:35 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
You have to relax.

I did not come in here to flame, nor have I said anything detremental here in quite a while. Do you understand the rarity of having 3 cars, 3 tunes on the same dyno, on the same day, same conditions? I dont think you do. It's nice to look at, and see them compare. Where did I say X tune sucks and Y tune is better because of so and so? No where. It's like saying "Well, no point in watching the game if I know the outcome." You dont like watching plays?

I have plenty of procede logs. And a few JB logs. And no Cobb logs. I know how the procede reacts to conditions. In this instance, conditions were consistant. Why cant I see how the Cobb faired in comparison?

The logs show everything. Shiv knows that, and the procede did very well. Thats why he didnt hesitate to offer to post them (later on). I dont see what your problem is.
Problem is you people always coming in here stirring the pot when you really dont care. Worry about your own car.

He doesnt want to post opinions on what is good or bad.

He doesnt want to post the dyno graphs.

And he doesnt have to post any logs if he doesnt want to.


Why? Cause you guys will just bicker more.

Its funny you mention you havnt said anything detrimental in a while, cause you even know thats all you do is cause problems in every thread. I'm just slowing down the usual suspects that continue to haunt Shiv's thread, so excuse me everyone.
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      11-17-2011, 03:37 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54 View Post
Problem is you people always coming in here stirring the pot when you really dont care. Worry about your own car.

He doesnt want to post opinions on what is good or bad.

He doesnt want to post the dyno graphs.

And he doesnt have to post any logs if he doesnt want to.


Why? Cause you guys will just bicker more.
Are you his laywer??
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