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      12-28-2011, 09:38 AM   #287
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To end the speculation, here are STi's plans for the BRZ according to their press release for the Tokyo Auto Salon, the upcoming tuner show in Japan.

Quote:
◆ SUBARU BRZ STI CONCEPT (display model)
Under its product concept that "everyone can experience the enjoyable driving", the SUBARU BRZ STI CONCEPT was developed to offer excellent handling performance based on "SUBARU BRZ", a rear-wheel drive sports car featuring the Horizontally-Opposed Boxer engine.
STI tuning and original parts, which include carbon-fiber engine hood and roof, not only achieved an extra weight reduction but also enhanced stable straight-driving and cornering performance. As a result, the car responds exactly to the driver's input.

Carbon Front Hood (Prototype)
STI Flexible Tower Bar (Prototype)
Carbon Roof (Prototype)
STI Low Down Spring (Prototype)
STI Front Under Spoiler (Prototype)
Brembo Brake & Rotor (Prototype)
STI Rear Trunk Spoiler (Prototype)
Bilstein Damper (Prototype)
STI Sport Muffler (Prototype)
STI 18-inch Aluminum Wheel (Prototype)
As mentioned.. No FI.
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      12-28-2011, 09:54 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
As mentioned.. No FI.
Yet. The base car isn't even available yet, why would they release a higher performance model now? I'm sure they're not oblivious to how Porsche, BMW, Ferrari and just about everyone else rolls out models.

Further, STI is the in house tuning arm of Subie, similar to M for BMW. Just as you can get M products for non M cars, the things you listed are simply STI offering for the base car, not indicative of what an actual full on STI model of the BRZ will be, which I'm sure we're still a year or two from seeing.

I'd also assume that there won't be a faster version of the BRZ until the current STI is done, which has to be soon, as the Impreza it's based on has already been replaced and current rumors have the STI and WRX moving to a separate chassis.
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      12-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Yet. The base car isn't even available yet, why would they release a higher performance model now? I'm sure they're not oblivious to how Porsche, BMW, Ferrari and just about everyone else rolls out models.

Further, STI is the in house tuning arm of Subie, similar to M for BMW. Just as you can get M products for non M cars, the things you listed are simply STI offering for the base car, not indicative of what an actual full on STI model of the BRZ will be, which I'm sure we're still a year or two from seeing.

I'd also assume that there won't be a faster version of the BRZ until the current STI is done, which has to be soon, as the Impreza it's based on has already been replaced and current rumors have the STI and WRX moving to a separate chassis.
This car is being produced by STi. The parts shown are what STi is changing on the car. Unlike M, STi does not change as much on the Impreza (% parts wise). Remember, Subaru plans to slot the BRZ just under the WRX. The WRX STi is still the halo car. The BRZ STi could have taken a run at it with more power.

The fact of the matter is; this is the car that STi is presenting on behalf of FHI. It's not a parts showcase. This is the concept car.
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      12-28-2011, 11:14 AM   #290
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Good to see they are adding the carbon parts (especially the roof) though. All that's left to do is move the battery to the trunk, add the turbo, remove the rear seats, and add wider tires.
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      01-04-2012, 10:31 AM   #291
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To end the speculation

(...)

As mentioned.. No FI.

Scion FR-S turbo spotted testing at Laguna Seca

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      01-04-2012, 10:53 AM   #292
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      01-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #293
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Dude.. that is a drift team car, NOT a factory car. Sounds like a 2.5L STi swap anyway. Guaranteed there was a ton of modification to make that work, FMIC included with some expensive plumbing.
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      01-04-2012, 04:32 PM   #294
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Seeing this car makes me miss my S2000. I would have kept it but it wasn't practical. That's where this car will shine.
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      01-05-2012, 04:59 AM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Dude.. that is a drift team car, NOT a factory car. Sounds like a 2.5L STi swap anyway. Guaranteed there was a ton of modification to make that work, FMIC included with some expensive plumbing.
A drift team car with a car that it isn't available to the general public yet in any of its versions...

You see, there's a lot of modded 400hp 135i's out there and yet there's ALSO the factory 340hp 1M!

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      01-05-2012, 05:08 AM   #296
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Seeing this car makes me miss my S2000. I would have kept it but it wasn't practical. That's where this car will shine.
The S2000 didn't have a progressive breakaway... not the easiest car to handle! The engine and gearbox combination is very hard to match though... it was that good!

The Toyobaru is also much more practical for a dd.
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      01-05-2012, 08:38 AM   #297
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A drift team car with a car that it isn't available to the general public yet in any of its versions...

You see, there's a lot of modded 400hp 135i's out there and yet there's ALSO the factory 340hp 1M!

What. The 1-series chassis was always designed to have the capacity for turbocharging.

Listen, I want to believe. I REALLY do. I just can't until we have some solid evidence. I've stared at that engine bay and I tend to believe Subaru when they say a turbo does not fit.
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      01-05-2012, 09:34 AM   #298
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Listen, I want to believe. I REALLY do. I just can't until we have some solid evidence. I've stared at that engine bay and I tend to believe Subaru when they say a turbo does not fit.
First you state that they even have managed to do a '2.5L STi swap' with 'a ton of modification to make that work, FMIC included with some expensive plumbing', then immediately afterwards you state that Subaru says there's no room for FI in a smaller 2.0L engine?!?!?

Please, show me where Subaru have ever said that.

I'm really hoping that they don't put a turbo in there... I rather wanted to see a supercharger!
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      01-05-2012, 09:56 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
First you state that they even have managed to do a '2.5L STi swap' with 'a ton of modification to make that work, FMIC included with some expensive plumbing', then immediately afterwards you state that Subaru says there's no room for FI in a smaller 2.0L engine?!?!?

Please, show me where Subaru have ever said that.

I'm really hoping that they don't put a turbo in there... I rather wanted to see a supercharger!
S/C I agree might be possible. And what I meant was; the drift team probably changed enough to make it fit that the car would likely not pass safety/homologation/etc.

As for Subaru saying a turbo won't fit.. take a look:

Quote:
"The company says that it has no room for a turbocharger either"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

Quote:
"The engineering team had to resist the allure of weight-saving materials and turbos. “The goal was to keep it basic and make it a real handling car,” says Masuda. “Horsepower was not our focus. If you want horsepower, we have the STI.”
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...pockets-page-1

Quote:
"The engine is an all-new design called the FA, with a perfectly square stroke of 86x86 and a variable-valve control system that Subaru calls AVCS, for active valve control system. The FA was developed for and only used in this car, "at least for the time being." On the required premium gas, Subaru's numbers are 200 horsepower and 150 pound-feet, with reps at a loss to explain why Toyota rates the same engine – that Subaru builds – at 197 horsepower. The FA is smaller than the Impreza's FB engine, achieved with items such as a shorter and lower intake manifold, a shallower bottom on the transmission, and revised, more compact lubrication system. Subaru then placed components in different places to get the engine further back in its bay, like making the intake manifold front-facing and placing the crankshaft 60 mm lower. The induction system was shorted to reduce overhangs, and the radiator was tilted 17 degrees to improve the center of gravity. Compared to the Impreza, the BRZ's engine is placed 120 mm lower and 240 mm further back.

And that's why there's no turbo, and no plans to include one – the engine occupies the space where Subaru would normally bolt one on. They moved so many things around, we don't know why they couldn't have been just as creative with some forced induction, but the company's traditional placement of the intercooler atop the engine simply wouldn't have worked. Subaru plans a longer life-cycle for the car, six to seven years instead of four to five, and it was strongly hinted that we would see a power bump during a mid-cycle refresh – but not a turbocharged bump. We were told as well, though, that this engine will be the base of Subaru's next-generation turbocharged engine."
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/05/2...-drive-review/

Now the confusion comes from the fact that there IS a turbocharged version of the FA (~260-300hp). However, this engine is designed for the WRX and possibly STi. There is also a 1.6L turbocharged engine which MIGHT fit although it wouldn't make much sense as the power would be similar.

Power bump of some type is likely though. Even the Subaru engineers think it's underpowered..

Quote:
"We pulled out onto the oval and worked up to speed. Two hundred horsepower is enough for the sub-2,700-pound coupe, with the urgent-enough grunt, plentiful road feedback and engine noises making it feel like things were happening, but we wouldn't complain about more, a fact which shouldn't surprise you (the BRZ GT's 300 hp, anyone?). We aren't alone: One of the engineers, when asked what how he might alter the coupe, said "For the handling there's nothing to do, but yes, maybe a little more power."
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/05/2...-drive-review/
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      01-05-2012, 11:11 AM   #300
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Power bump of some type is likely though. Even the Subaru engineers think it's underpowered..
The chassis, as it is, is good enough for at least 50hp more. If the Subaru engineers think it's underpowered we already have one of the two main reasons to see a future FI version as very likely. The other is sales prospective.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post

As for Subaru saying a turbo won't fit.. take a look:

Quote:
"The engine is an all-new design called the FA, with a perfectly square stroke of 86x86 and a variable-valve control system that Subaru calls AVCS, for active valve control system. The FA was developed for and only used in this car, "at least for the time being." On the required premium gas, Subaru's numbers are 200 horsepower and 150 pound-feet, with reps at a loss to explain why Toyota rates the same engine – that Subaru builds – at 197 horsepower. The FA is smaller than the Impreza's FB engine, achieved with items such as a shorter and lower intake manifold, a shallower bottom on the transmission, and revised, more compact lubrication system. Subaru then placed components in different places to get the engine further back in its bay, like making the intake manifold front-facing and placing the crankshaft 60 mm lower. The induction system was shorted to reduce overhangs, and the radiator was tilted 17 degrees to improve the center of gravity. Compared to the Impreza, the BRZ's engine is placed 120 mm lower and 240 mm further back.

And that's why there's no turbo, and no plans to include one – the engine occupies the space where Subaru would normally bolt one on. They moved so many things around, we don't know why they couldn't have been just as creative with some forced induction, but the company's traditional placement of the intercooler atop the engine simply wouldn't have worked. Subaru plans a longer life-cycle for the car, six to seven years instead of four to five, and it was strongly hinted that we would see a power bump during a mid-cycle refresh – but not a turbocharged bump. We were told as well, though, that this engine will be the base of Subaru's next-generation turbocharged engine."
In none of the quotes you've posted Subaru EVER says that a turbo does not fit.

In fact, the above quote (which is not from Subaru) just explains why a turbo can indeed fit. Why?!

Because in the new 1.6 engine that you've mentioned the turbo has changed from its traditional place in the back, near the firewall, to be now placed down in the front where room exists in the Toyobaru.

Also, what Subaru has already officially stated is that a turbo version of the FA20 engine will INDEED exist in the near future. Just compare the two front views of the engines and where the turbo is located in the 1.6L engine:




1.6L with Turbo and air-to-air intercooler:

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      01-05-2012, 11:24 AM   #301
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Right; as I said 1.6L turbo. Which would produce similar power to the 2.0L FA in NA, though probably more torque.. but I don't know how that would work with gearing.

Anyway I'm trying to understand your point re: the 1.6T.. I still think the 2.0T doesn't fit. As Subaru did say, if you want more power, the WRX STi is there.

Are you saying that since they fit a turbo to a 1.6L that MIGHT fit.. that they can also fit a turbo on the FA in the BRZ? We know the FA will be turbo in the WRX. Just trying to get where you're coming from..
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      01-05-2012, 11:26 AM   #302
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From this perspective you can better see why a TMIC is also possible (there's room available):

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      01-05-2012, 11:30 AM   #303
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Quote:
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Are you saying that since they fit a turbo to a 1.6L that MIGHT fit.. that they can also fit a turbo on the FA in the BRZ? We know the FA will be turbo in the WRX. Just trying to get where you're coming from..
YES! Just good enough for 50hp plus (smaller turbo).

Although I would much prefer a S/C, I must reckon that a Turbo version will be more likely... since it's Subaru we are talking about.
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      01-05-2012, 11:39 AM   #304
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YES! Just good enough for 50hp plus (smaller turbo).

Although I would much prefer a S/C, I must reckon that a Turbo version will be more likely... since it's Subaru we are talking about.
Hmm.. well, can't wait to see what unfolds. I guess we should wait until it's for sale here eh? :P
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      01-05-2012, 11:47 AM   #305
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Wrong and I am happy about it. If you want a turbo, skip the BRZ and BRZ STI and wait for the new WRX and WRX STI.

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      01-05-2012, 12:44 PM   #306
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Wrong and I am happy about it. If you want a turbo, skip the BRZ and BRZ STI and wait for the new WRX and WRX STI.
Interestinggggg... a 2300 lb., high revving 240HP STi version sounds just as attractive.

I'm sure the aftermarket will find a way to turbo it though.
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      01-05-2012, 01:30 PM   #307
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Wrong and I am happy about it. If you want a turbo, skip the BRZ and BRZ STI and wait for the new WRX and WRX STI.
I'm sorry Levi... but I don't buy that. If the chassis is capable of handling more power from a NA engine, then there's no way of making more power from this engine, say extra 50hp, while keeping both the emissions and consumption down without FI. Period.

If a more powerful version of this engine will ever exist then it will be FI. Of that I am pretty sure!

Oh, sorry... it already exists and Subaru says it has FI!
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      01-05-2012, 02:10 PM   #308
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I'm sorry Levi... but I don't buy that. If the chassis is capable of handling more power from a NA engine, then there's no way of making more power from this engine, say extra 50hp, while keeping both the emissions and consumption down without FI. Period.

If a more powerful version of this engine will ever exist then it will be FI. Of that I am pretty sure!

Oh, sorry... it already exists and Subaru says it has FI!

Yes, the engine you are talking about is going to fit in the the WRX. Why should an STI get a completely different engine? The BRZ STI will be like an M3 CSL or a 911 GT3 RS, a more hardore version and not a just powerful version like for example VW Scirocco and VW Scirocco R. So also who cares about keeping emissions and consumption low? The AS1 is a tuners car, so those wanting FI will just swap EJ engines or ad supercharger or turbocharger kits. Only TRD will offer a bolt on supercharger for any 86, and maybe a special version with it already from factory.
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