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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > 328i and 335i information overheard



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      12-10-2005, 11:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by user1
Why not? The 530 is 74% less than the M5 and the 550 is 41% less than the M5. Makes sense to me having the 335 50% less than the M3.The 525 is BMWs mid-level luxury auto starting at 42500. Putting a non-M 3 series sedan at 40000 to 42000 would be a bad move for many reasons. If this were the case it would be a coin toss on whether to get a 335i or 525i.
Your price ratio may be right except you might have underestmated the V8 M3 price. It is a 420hp+ killer and it is priced should be close to RS4.

I guess you are the only one in this forum needed to decide a 310hp with a lousy grandmother slow engine heavy car such as 525i by a coin toss.

BMW is not going to do a charity to you guys. I am not convinced there are any true competitors around in the next year or so that can beat the 310hp 335i coupe. This specification is going to beat the big sshhhttt out all the Audi's, MB's and the Japanese compact sedans. If MB is not gonna to turbocharge the C350, they will lose big in this segment.
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      12-11-2005, 06:01 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SpeedFreak!
Your claims just get stranger and stranger. On one hand you claim that the decision... a rather large decision... has NOT been made... YET a Press Packet has already been finished and is being distributed.

Riiiight.

I assure you... ALL of you reading these post... these people don't know what the hell they are talking about.

I... for one... have never claimed to be 100% infallible. Any time you see people taking that rigid a position, without official clearance or documentation... BEWARE!
OK, you don't have to believe it if you don't want to. Your choice. A wrong one.

Press kit is ready. It will be a general / global press release, with no market specific info and pricing info.

3.0L I6 turbo is a highlight of the coming press release, no mention of 3.5L I6 NA engine though.
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      12-11-2005, 09:26 AM   #25
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The 525i is not a slow heavy car. It is less than 100 lbs heavier than a 330i. Bigger, yes.
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      12-11-2005, 12:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tine
OK, you don't have to believe it if you don't want to. Your choice. A wrong one.

Press kit is ready. It will be a general / global press release, with no market specific info and pricing info.

3.0L I6 turbo is a highlight of the coming press release, no mention of 3.5L I6 NA engine though.

I don't doubt that your "friend" has been able to read you copy that has been floating around for months... as for everything else they are saying... ... I can't wait to see how this plays out.
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      12-11-2005, 12:54 PM   #27
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It's not some copy that was floating around now for a while, but an official press release (issued by BMW AG public relation dept.) about new BMW model.
BMW do that every time they introduce new model.

It was issued this week, and will be published after BMW remeove the publishing embargo.

Expect it in the net, magazines, etc late next week (#50) or early a week after (week #51).

When I get the info till when embargo is due, I'll let you know.

In a few days it will be: GAME GAME. YOU'VE LOST.

P.S.: And don't forget to remeber the lines from PR I've posted!
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      12-11-2005, 12:59 PM   #28
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I love this thread!! at the end of all this, one of you will be known as a real BMW enthusiast and the other will be known as a liar who spreads false information. Can't wait for the final verdict !!

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      12-11-2005, 01:01 PM   #29
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Tine, does the press release you're referring to apply to the US market though? You and Speed may both be right and simply referring to different markets.

Speed has said from day 1 that he's ONLY talking about the US market because that's what he has info for. If the press release is coming out in Europe, it may not necessarily prove Speed wrong.
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      12-11-2005, 01:23 PM   #30
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As I said: it's general global press release. No info is market specific.
E.g. 3.0L I6 variable twin turbo engine is described, highlighted, but not mentioned which markets will get it or not. But there is no info (it's not even mentioned) about 3.5L I6 NA engine.

But, Speed now doubts in this press release.

Also, independently from press release, I have info BMW AG still have to decide which engine will they bring to US in 335(C)i: 3.0L turbo (full version or detuned), or upgraded / uptuned 3.0L I6 NA.

But ther will be no 3.5L I6 NA engine!

Let me say again: I have info from a guy who works for a company which takes part in developing engines, also for BMW. He assured me there is NO 3.5L I6 NA BMW engine in development. But along the 3.0L I6 turbo, also 2.5L and 3.0L I6 DI NA engines have been developed.
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      12-11-2005, 01:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveO
I love this thread!! at the end of all this, one of you will be known as a real BMW enthusiast and the other will be known as a liar who spreads false information. Can't wait for the final verdict !!

No, one of us will be known as the one with good and trustworthy connections, and the other one a poor guy who was misled by his sources. I'll be the guy #1.

If BMW decide not to bring turbo in US at this stage, 335(C)i will get upgraded / uptuned 3.0L I6 NA engine, but not 3.5L one. Because it doesn't exist. Nor it will in the near future.
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      12-11-2005, 01:40 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by stressdoc
The 525i is not a slow heavy car. It is less than 100 lbs heavier than a 330i. Bigger, yes.

Still it is crap.
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      12-11-2005, 02:00 PM   #33
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if there is no NA 3.5L, turbo makes more sense than upgraded / uptuned 3.0L ( what's the limit for this motor, 275HP??? )
and I seriously doubt development of new 3.5L would go unnoticed.
so we'll get turbo...
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      12-11-2005, 02:16 PM   #34
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and the plot thickens...
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      12-11-2005, 02:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odct
I seriously doubt development of new 3.5L would go unnoticed
Oh, it seems it's a secret project led by some guy from BMW NA. He is developing this engine in the most secret place in the world: in his head.
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      12-11-2005, 02:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by DaveO
I love this thread!! at the end of all this, one of you will be known as a real BMW enthusiast and the other will be known as a liar who spreads false information. Can't wait for the final verdict !!
That's a little harsh. I wouldn't call the person who is wrong a liar. It is possible the person who is less right got incorrect information from their source. I don't think Tine or Speed would spend so much time defending their positions if they didn't get their info from what they believe to be reliable sources. Granted, one persons source may be less accurate than the other, but lets not call anyone a liar.
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      12-11-2005, 02:52 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3aficionado
That's a little harsh. I wouldn't call the person who is wrong a liar. It is possible the person who is less right got incorrect information from their source. I don't think Tine or Speed would spend so much time defending their positions if they didn't get their info from what they believe to be reliable sources. Granted, one persons source may be less accurate than the other, but lets not call anyone a liar.
Its also possible that the upgraded 3.0 liter engine & the 3.5 liter engine are one & the same.
Possible explanations:

1) Speed's sources may be the more "marketing" types and are somehow under the impression that an upgraded 3.0 liter increases displacement when in reality, it doesn't.

2) The new direct injection design (including new heads) actually DOES increase displacement. This would not be surprising as even the new Lexus IS has these types of heads incorporated into their 3.5 liter engine.

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      12-11-2005, 03:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichReg
Its also possible that the upgraded 3.0 liter engine & the 3.5 liter engine are one & the same.
Possible explanations:

1) Speed's sources may be the more "marketing" types and are somehow under the impression that an upgraded 3.0 liter increases displacement when in reality, it doesn't.
IMO, that's very close to what's really going on at BMW NA.

As I said: BMW AG still to decide whether to bring a tubo 3.0L I6 engine or an upgraded 3.0L I6 NA in the US.

I do not know how BMW NA is able to distribute news about an issue that has not even been decided by BMW AG in Munich HQ yet!?
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      12-11-2005, 03:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by user1
Why not? The 530 is 74% less than the M5 and the 550 is 41% less than the M5. Makes sense to me having the 335 50% less than the M3.The 525 is BMWs mid-level luxury auto starting at 42500. Putting a non-M 3 series sedan at 40000 to 42000 would be a bad move for many reasons. If this were the case it would be a coin toss on whether to get a 335i or 525i.
Your price ratio may be right except you might have underestmated the V8 M3 price. It is a 420hp+ killer and it is priced should be close to RS4.

I guess you are the only one in this forum needed to decide a 310hp with a lousy grandmother slow engine heavy car such as 525i by a coin toss.

BMW is not going to do a charity to you guys. I am not convinced there are any true competitors around in the next year or so that can beat the 310hp 335i coupe. This specification is going to beat the big sshhhttt out all the Audi's, MB's and the Japanese compact sedans. If MB is not gonna to turbocharge the C350, they will lose big in this segment.
I didn't underestimate the possible M3 price – I never gave a price. I stated it is possible a new M3 could be almost 50% more than a 335 - something which you were doubtful. I think you misread my post as I stated a “non-M 3 series” price based on your 15% price increase claims. I really couldn't estimate at this point what the M3 price will be, but judging by the difference in the 5 series line its not out of the realm of possibility that an M3 could be almost 50% more than a regular 3 series.

Automobile.com says the MSRP of the RS4 will be around 70K. Following your logic the M3 will also be 70K. If the 335 was 45% less than the M3 it would come out to 38500, which is 5% more than the current 330. So I think if you are correct about the new M3 being the same price as an RS4, then I am correct in the 335 could be about 50% less than an M3. This is similar to the 5 series line and its difference in price to the M5. Plus my 5% increase over the 330 fits in with 3aficonados logic that "any increase will still be in the low single digits".

This isn’t a matter of "charity". It is a price-point economics question about how much you can charge for a product before sales decrease to a level where you are less profitable. With an entry level luxury sedan you will find that 15% price increases will not occur. Just because the 335 will beat the competition in HP doesn't mean BMW will increase the price to a level that will decrease profitability.

Lastly, I never stated I would need to flip a coin to decide between a similarly priced 335 and 525... it was merely an expression on how illogical your 15% price increase would be as it would pit to different level BMW autos at the same price against one another.
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      12-11-2005, 05:10 PM   #40
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This is one of the reasons i hate BMW... just after i got my 330i thinking i'm the king of the hill, they screw me over a year after!!!
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      12-11-2005, 06:17 PM   #41
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The Tine vs. SpeedFreak! saga will continue even after the e92 press release is made public.

I'm behind Tine and believe what he's saying (due whatever evidence is out there), but even when the info is released and a 3.5L isn't mentioned, SpeedFreak! will claim that no mention of a 3.5L doesn't rule out that it's not in development.

So we will have to wait several more weeks/months until market-specific information is released before we find out who really has the better source.

Tine, perhaps BMW AG doesn't know about the NA development of the 3.5L in Seattle (by BMW's favorite engineers, Kito Auto Sports).

...my first post, but I've been snooping around since the summer and registered a month or so ago. I'm waiting for the e92, so I've been (and still am) unable to contribute anything worthwhile to the board; however, I've always wanted to do this: .
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      12-11-2005, 06:31 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interpol
The Tine vs. SpeedFreak! saga will continue even after the e92 press release is made public.

I'm behind Tine and believe what he's saying (due whatever evidence is out there), but even when the info is released and a 3.5L isn't mentioned, SpeedFreak! will claim that no mention of a 3.5L doesn't rule out that it's not in development.

So we will have to wait several more weeks/months until market-specific information is released before we find out who really has the better source.


Tine, perhaps BMW AG doesn't know about the NA development of the 3.5L in Seattle (by BMW's favorite engineers, Kito Auto Sports).

...my first post, but I've been snooping around since the summer and registered a month or so ago. I'm waiting for the e92, so I've been (and still am) unable to contribute anything worthwhile to the board; however, I've always wanted to do this: .
Excellent points we should keep in mind before judging anyone once the press release comes out.
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      12-11-2005, 08:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user1
Automobile.com says the MSRP of the RS4 will be around 70K. Following your logic the M3 will also be 70K. If the 335 was 45% less than the M3 it would come out to 38500, which is 5% more than the current 330. So I think if you are correct about the new M3 being the same price as an RS4, then I am correct in the 335 could be about 50% less than an M3. This is similar to the 5 series line and its difference in price to the M5. Plus my 5% increase over the 330 fits in with 3aficonados logic that "any increase will still be in the low single digits".

Lastly, I never stated I would need to flip a coin to decide between a similarly priced 335 and 525... it was merely an expression on how illogical your 15% price increase would be as it would pit to different level BMW autos at the same price against one another.
Really not sure if BMW will give you guys a 310hp 3.5 litre E90 for the same price as the current 252hp 330i. This power is pretty close to current M3! This is over 20% power increase over the 330i. Look at what 300hp IS350, 300hp Accura RL gonna charge you, they were never priced the price and they were never the same car anymore.
All your points of your price model are taken.
Thanks.
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      12-11-2005, 09:02 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by GTS_330
This is one of the reasons i hate BMW... just after i got my 330i thinking i'm the king of the hill, they screw me over a year after!!!
Not sure about that. The earlier you have got your new car, the quicker you change to another more powerful car. e.g. M3 E90.
The best is to buy a new generation model in the earliest stage, as car specifications can be changed on a bi-annual basis in near future I wish I got my E90 a year ago like you did.
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