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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Eric's HPF Single Turbo N54 Is ALIVE - VIDEO



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      01-15-2012, 09:48 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste View Post
PV=nRT

Pressure * Volume = a constant * a constant * Temperature

So if the Pressure remains the same and the volume remains the same (stock cylinder head intake ports don't change in size), then it only leaves temperature. Just saying...
The other factor no one has mentioned is the larger turbo has far less backpressure on the turbine side, which is probably the biggest overall factor why 18psi does not equal 18psi.
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      01-15-2012, 09:50 PM   #156
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The biggest factor is air flow. A larger wheel is going to push more air. It's really that simple
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      01-15-2012, 09:51 PM   #157
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The other factor no one has mentioned is the larger turbo has far less backpressure on the turbine side, which is probably the biggest overall factor why 18psi does not equal 18psi.
Yes, increasing the overall efficiency of the turbocharger lessening the temperature increase due to friction and transfer of heat to the intake charge...lol
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      01-15-2012, 10:13 PM   #158
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The biggest factor is air flow. A larger wheel is going to push more air. It's really that simple
Yep - I wonder what the VAC stage 3 head costs? If you put that much more air into the intake manifold it's got to go through the head efficiently.
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      01-15-2012, 11:00 PM   #159
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I look forward to seeing what HPF can do... Dzenno's results are pretty much exactly what I want... that's a car good for a 120 trap without trying and compromises no daily drive ability.
Then why not go with RBs? Lets say the RBs make 450/520 and the HPF makes 500/430 on 93. That 120ftlbs is where the driveability is going to be. And the response is no doubt going to be better with the smallish twins, even if the response is good for a single turbo.

Im not downplaying HPF's progress, it's awesome for the communityx1000.
But i think a lot of people are looking at stage 1 as if no-one has ever been anywhere near that power level before.
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      01-15-2012, 11:08 PM   #160
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Then why not go with RBs? Lets say the RBs make 450/520 and the HPF makes 500/430 on 93. That 120ftlbs is where the driveability is going to be. And the response is no doubt going to be better with the smallish twins, even if the response is good for a single turbo.

Im not downplaying HPF's progress, it's awesome for the communityx1000.
But i think a lot of people are looking at stage 1 as if no-one has ever been anywhere near that power level before.
I am with you 100% although I can't comment until I see a dyno sheet...
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      01-15-2012, 11:25 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rader1 View Post
Then why not go with RBs? Lets say the RBs make 450/520 and the HPF makes 500/430 on 93. That 120ftlbs is where the driveability is going to be. And the response is no doubt going to be better with the smallish twins, even if the response is good for a single turbo.

Im not downplaying HPF's progress, it's awesome for the communityx1000.
But i think a lot of people are looking at stage 1 as if no-one has ever been anywhere near that power level before.
uh...Did you mean 90 ft/lb of torque?

520-430=90.....
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      01-15-2012, 11:30 PM   #162
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uh...Did you mean 90 ft/lb of torque?

520-430=90.....
Math>me...
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      01-15-2012, 11:36 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rader1 View Post
Math>me...
LOL....I just wanted to make sure that you're talking about the torque difference....
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      01-16-2012, 12:20 AM   #164
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Who said HPF makes 500/430 they haven't even dyno the car.
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      01-16-2012, 12:23 AM   #165
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LOL....I just wanted to make sure that you're talking about the torque difference....
Yeah, i just totally spaced out... I need to stop using the same guy FOX news uses as a fact checker
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      01-16-2012, 12:24 AM   #166
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Hope to see 550+HP Pump with Stage 1
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      01-16-2012, 12:29 AM   #167
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Who said HPF makes 500/430 they haven't even dyno the car.
That was just a number i threw out to demonstrate to potential difference in power curves of a twin turbo setup as opposed to a single. But you right, the car hasn't been dynoed and it's all speculation until then. Stage 1 could potentially be a monster on pump gas, we'll just have to wait and see. I just have a feeling that pt62 isn't THAT huge of a step over a set of currently available upgraded twins. I think we'll see a jump in horsepower, but not torque.
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      01-16-2012, 08:29 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste View Post
PV=nRT

Pressure * Volume = a constant * a constant * Temperature

So if the Pressure remains the same and the volume remains the same (stock cylinder head intake ports don't change in size), then it only leaves temperature. Just saying...
Ideal gas law is only an approximation of air and isnt very applicable as temperatures and pressures change dynamicly and drastically.

Also, volume of the cylinder remains the same, but not the volume of air being forced into the cylinder.
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      01-16-2012, 08:37 AM   #169
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Wait a second, why would the single make less torque?

I don't think everyone here understands why a turbocharger that can move more lbs/min of air more efficiently makes more power....

In order for the power to go up, the torque has to go up or shift positions. In the perfect scenario, going to this bigger turbo will make MORE torque and it will be farther to the right. (right being max RPM of the motor)

If we "maxed" out a turbo that flows more air than the RB's, then it would have to make more torque, assuming everything was good on the tuning and hardware ends.
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      01-16-2012, 09:40 AM   #170
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Wait a second, why would the single make less torque?

I don't think everyone here understands why a turbocharger that can move more lbs/min of air more efficiently makes more power....

In order for the power to go up, the torque has to go up or shift positions. In the perfect scenario, going to this bigger turbo will make MORE torque and it will be farther to the right. (right being max RPM of the motor)

If we "maxed" out a turbo that flows more air than the RB's, then it would have to make more torque, assuming everything was good on the tuning and hardware ends.
Larger singles generally gain torque (or at least keep it flat) closer to redline. Basically you just shift the torque curve out and flatten it. This is because you are not choking the turbine wheel at the higher CFM flow rates.

The good news is that this creates more HP with the higher RPMs (good for drag race). The bad news is you loose some torque down low (due to slower spool from the larger turbine wheel).

Next we will have to figure out how to spin these I-6's up to 8-9K RPM
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      01-16-2012, 03:58 PM   #171
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Ideal gas law is only an approximation of air and isnt very applicable as temperatures and pressures change dynamicly and drastically.

Also, volume of the cylinder remains the same, but not the volume of air being forced into the cylinder.
You mean mass. The volume in the cylinder can't change. Only the pressure and temp (air mass).
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      01-16-2012, 04:07 PM   #172
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With all this talk about spool up and lost torque down low I think that is just what this car needs. I'd sacrifice some lag for some brute power on the top end. It may also give us the chance to actually hook the tires.

The torque down low is necessary for 4 wheeling and your grandpas Ford taurus

Best thing we could have is a shift in the power-band. I'm not saying 10 second turbo lag like your Evo 9's on gt35 but somewhere in the middle.
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      01-16-2012, 04:46 PM   #173
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      01-16-2012, 04:46 PM   #174
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With all this talk about spool up and lost torque down low I think that is just what this car needs. I'd sacrifice some lag for some brute power on the top end. It may also give us the chance to actually hook the tires.

The torque down low is necessary for 4 wheeling and your grandpas Ford taurus

Best thing we could have is a shift in the power-band. I'm not saying 10 second turbo lag like your Evo 9's on gt35 but somewhere in the middle.
If their turbo spools around 3-3.5k that would be perfect.
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      01-16-2012, 04:54 PM   #175
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If their turbo spools around 3-3.5k that would be perfect.
certainly doable. 3.2L in mine w gt35r spools around that time. built 3.2 s52 running HTA35r on pump has passed 600whp.

cant wait to see the n54 do the same.
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      01-16-2012, 05:11 PM   #176
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You mean mass. The volume in the cylinder can't change. Only the pressure and temp (air mass).
No, volume is correct... volumetric efficiency curve will change. How much air can flow. basically follows the torque curve and we'll see if this increases or just moves right as others have mentioned. pressure and temperature is mass.
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