E90Post
 


Bimmertech
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > A re-look at the alpine H660



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-08-2011, 05:56 AM   #1
wtneo
New Member
 
Drives: e90 320i
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Singapore

Posts: 5
iTrader: (0)

A re-look at the alpine H660

I just did a full upgrade of my base e90 stereo using the alpine H660, which I think is completely under-rated. For the price you pay (~$220 for a brand new shipped), it cost about the same as the cleansweep, can do anti-EQ like the cleansweep and do most of the tuning by itself for a nice output.

Of course it cannot be compared to the tuning done by professionals at the workshop, but it sure comes close to it and tuning only takes a quick 15-20 mins if setup properly.

I have to say that the documentation is a shame. Even with the info I get from the different forums, my installer and I struggled to get the wiring right. But once properly wired and configured, the output is phenomenon. The MS-8 might be more popular in this forum as there are many core people in the forum driving it, but for less than half the price, the H660 gets my vote and I am loving it

Last edited by wtneo; 09-08-2011 at 10:04 AM. Reason: typo
wtneo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-17-2012, 02:18 PM   #2
hjvelez
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2012 E92 325i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cartagena, Colombia

Posts: 40
iTrader: (0)

Hi, im gonna be using the alpine unit in my upgrade also. I too have the base audio system. What did u youse as your input signal?
__________________
__________________________
2012 325i Coupe Mineral White
hjvelez is offline   Colombia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 06:50 AM   #3
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
H660 Rocks!!

Yep - I agree, I only looked into it half way through my install, as I had my mind set on the MS-8. But then looking into it, found kaigoss69's post on his H650. And now with the H660 the volume issue is sorted!!

The thing with my set up is I don't have a centre speaker and the rears are powered from the HU, so the MS-8 built-in amp would go to waste and after hearing the Logic7 in both bimmer and merc last month, I really couldn't tell the difference. So that again would be a waste for me, as I wouldn't make use of that tech. Also it’s tiny compared to some of the other products out there. It also should be able to fit on the telematics control unit Bracket (65159135687) with a little modification (which I will be doing).

It has also been noted that the mic included is super quality, and along with its “IMPRINT technology, also known as Audyssey's MultEQ.” What makes it different from other room correction processer's like DEQX or Tact is “spatial averaging, which is simply measuring different areas of the car/room, and averaging those results together to get a more realistic picture of the room's response rather than at one location.” – Basically another type of witchcraft. And it’s available for $250. Steal of the century in my eyes!

I have since gone about ordering it and will be installing it shortly. I will be posting up a full install of my audio system, which will include pics of this and other kit I installed.
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:16 PM   #4
cdgatti
Major
 
cdgatti's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 328i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: KY

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlo View Post
Yep - I agree, I only looked into it half way through my install, as I had my mind set on the MS-8. But then looking into it, found kaigoss69's post on his H650. And now with the H660 the volume issue is sorted!!

The thing with my set up is I don't have a centre speaker and the rears are powered from the HU, so the MS-8 built-in amp would go to waste and after hearing the Logic7 in both bimmer and merc last month, I really couldn't tell the difference. So that again would be a waste for me, as I wouldn't make use of that tech. Also it’s tiny compared to some of the other products out there. It also should be able to fit on the telematics control unit Bracket (65159135687) with a little modification (which I will be doing).

It has also been noted that the mic included is super quality, and along with its “IMPRINT technology, also known as Audyssey's MultEQ.” What makes it different from other room correction processer's like DEQX or Tact is “spatial averaging, which is simply measuring different areas of the car/room, and averaging those results together to get a more realistic picture of the room's response rather than at one location.” – Basically another type of witchcraft. And it’s available for $250. Steal of the century in my eyes!

I have since gone about ordering it and will be installing it shortly. I will be posting up a full install of my audio system, which will include pics of this and other kit I installed.
Hey Pav what will your input and output channel set up look like with the 660? I am debating between ms-8, 660 and new 800.
cdgatti is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 03:08 PM   #5
kaigoss69
Colonel
 
kaigoss69's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: JAX

Posts: 2,957
iTrader: (5)

One MAJOR drawback of the H660 (and the 650) is the front low/hi crossover, which can not be set lower than 200Hz, and the slope is fixed 12dB/oct. If you cross the underseats that high, you would probably want a steeper slope.
__________________
Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > JL Audio HD600/4 > (3) Hybrid Audio L3SE & (2) Rainbow Cal25; JL Audio HD900/5 > (2) Morel HCW-10 & (1) IDMax 15
kaigoss69 is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 05:03 PM   #6
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69
One MAJOR drawback of the H660 (and the 650) is the front low/hi crossover, which can not be set lower than 200Hz, and the slope is fixed 12dB/oct. If you cross the underseats that high, you would probably want a steeper slope.
Only applies to 'Front 1' which is 200 Hz to 5 kHz, the slope is 12 dB/octave. Fixed as HP tweeter output on bi-amp.

'Front 2' (which is the one alpine recommends to use) is a bi-amp output, which is HPF: 200 Hz to 5 kHz, LPF: 40 Hz to 200 Hz, both 12 dB/octav.

On sub output LPF is 40Hz to 200Hz 12 or 24 dB/octav

The H650 goes as low as 50Hz in bi-amp, rear and sub. So as far as I can see it should be more then fine...
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 05:44 PM   #7
kaigoss69
Colonel
 
kaigoss69's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: JAX

Posts: 2,957
iTrader: (5)

OK, so when you bi-amp (which is what you need to do in our set-up) the Front 1 are the front door mids/highs and the Front 2 are the underseats. The lowest possible HPF for the Front 1s is 200Hz. This means you need to "meet" the door mids/highs with a matching 200Hz LPF on the underseats. You cannot play the door speakers lower than 200Hz.
__________________
Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > JL Audio HD600/4 > (3) Hybrid Audio L3SE & (2) Rainbow Cal25; JL Audio HD900/5 > (2) Morel HCW-10 & (1) IDMax 15
kaigoss69 is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 06:07 PM   #8
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
OK, so when you bi-amp (which is what you need to do in our set-up) the Front 1 are the front door mids/highs and the Front 2 are the underseats. The lowest possible HPF for the Front 1s is 200Hz. This means you need to "meet" the door mids/highs with a matching 200Hz LPF on the underseats. You cannot play the door speakers lower than 200Hz.
Not sure what you mean Kai by "meet", if you mean the freq gap then yee like I said it should be fine not perfect but fine, i'm more annoyed at the fact the HPF is highest at 5kHz, not even 10kHz. Don't know what that means in real world terms, hope it's sound stays bright.

P.s currently the focals are on 150Hz and underseats 50Hz, dont think 200Hz should introduce a big gap, but who knows, need to hear for myself...
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 07:31 PM   #9
kaigoss69
Colonel
 
kaigoss69's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: JAX

Posts: 2,957
iTrader: (5)

No worries about the frequencies, the range you mention is just for the crossover setting. If you set the x-over at 200Hz, all frequencies above it will go to the highs (200 - 20,000Hz), and all below to the underseats (and sub).
__________________
Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > JL Audio HD600/4 > (3) Hybrid Audio L3SE & (2) Rainbow Cal25; JL Audio HD900/5 > (2) Morel HCW-10 & (1) IDMax 15
kaigoss69 is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 05:41 AM   #10
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69
No worries about the frequencies, the range you mention is just for the crossover setting. If you set the x-over at 200Hz, all frequencies above it will go to the highs (200 - 20,000Hz), and all below to the underseats (and sub).
Ahh super! Kai - quick one, you had both the H650 and MS-8 apart from built in amp, L7, and detailed tuning that the MS-8 has... How does the H650 stack up. And ultimately I guess the question is, does it de-eq, correct and tune the sound as well as the MS-8?
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 06:28 AM   #11
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
H660

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti View Post
Hey Pav what will your input and output channel set up look like with the 660? I am debating between ms-8, 660 and new 800.
Once I get it I'll let you know, but with our 3-way set-up there is only really one way to do it, which is to bi-amp, mid/tweets on 'front 1' (200Hz max HPF), underseats on 'front 2' (40Hz max LPF). On bi-amp, each channel is still time aligned individually. The 'Rear' even though is 40 Hz to 200 Hz x-over, it is HPF ONLY. So I think there is only one way to go about this.

I'm only installing this to see for myself, at $200 (BNIB), it sounds great. It may not be as "high-end" as the MS-8 or H800 but it's also 4x cheaper. And from what I've seen it's not 4x worse. It will still de-eq, correct, tune and room set-up. I paid $100 for two LOC converters which do nothing other then speaker level converstion, look ugly and waste space in my boot. So I would say that just as a LOC its more than worth it money (Audisons SLI4 which is only a 4 channel LOC is like $150) And the H660 is a 7 channel (inc. sub).

And as I stated before it should fit on the telematics tray (with minor mods, as I will be attempting ).
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 12:07 PM   #12
cdgatti
Major
 
cdgatti's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 328i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: KY

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlo View Post
Once I get it I'll let you know, but with our 3-way set-up there is only really one way to do it, which is to bi-amp, mid/tweets on 'front 1' (200Hz max HPF), underseats on 'front 2' (40Hz max LPF). On bi-amp, each channel is still time aligned individually. The 'Rear' even though is 40 Hz to 200 Hz x-over, it is HPF ONLY. So I think there is only one way to go about this.

I'm only installing this to see for myself, at $200 (BNIB), it sounds great. It may not be as "high-end" as the MS-8 or H800 but it's also 4x cheaper. And from what I've seen it's not 4x worse. It will still de-eq, correct, tune and room set-up. I paid $100 for two LOC converters which do nothing other then speaker level converstion, look ugly and waste space in my boot. So I would say that just as a LOC its more than worth it money (Audisons SLI4 which is only a 4 channel LOC is like $150) And the H660 is a 7 channel (inc. sub).

And as I stated before it should fit on the telematics tray (with minor mods, as I will be attempting ).
Do you mean HPF the 'front 2' channels at 40Hxz?
cdgatti is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 03:41 PM   #13
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti View Post
Do you mean HPF the 'front 2' channels at 40Hxz?
Well the 'Front 2' in our 3-way set-up is for the underseat drivers, so if your running your underseats as woofers then you LPF them. (which is what im doing)
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 03:55 PM   #14
afsar
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW X5 xDrive40d
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London

Posts: 391
iTrader: (2)

Hi, can someone plese help me understand this. My setup in e60 is standard 6 speakers setup which I upgraded by adding coaxials in the front door, alpine tweeters and the tweeter enclosure, sws8 underseats and stock rear all driven by PDX5 in the boot. Coded n CIC on hifi so I am getting all 4 full range signals low level straights into PDX. Now if I want to add H660 which line should I connect input and output too? What shall I keep my PDX 5 cut-off freq for each channel?

Please someone guide me I am doing it this weekend, fingers crossed.
afsar is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 04:38 PM   #15
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by afsar View Post
Hi, can someone plese help me understand this. My setup in e60 is standard 6 speakers setup which I upgraded by adding coaxials in the front door, alpine tweeters and the tweeter enclosure, sws8 underseats and stock rear all driven by PDX5 in the boot. Coded n CIC on hifi so I am getting all 4 full range signals low level straights into PDX. Now if I want to add H660 which line should I connect input and output too? What shall I keep my PDX 5 cut-off freq for each channel?

Please someone guide me I am doing it this weekend, fingers crossed.
The H660 accepts speaker level or line level inputs.

H660 output are RCA, into amp (PDX5).

Leave them all on "full" since your H660 will now take care of it, and at the same time "limit" them, as me and Kai were discussing above...
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 04:57 PM   #16
afsar
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW X5 xDrive40d
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London

Posts: 391
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlo View Post
The H660 accepts speaker level or line level inputs.

H660 output are RCA, into amp (PDX5).

Leave them all on "full" since your H660 will now take care of it, and at the same time "limit" them, as me and Kai were discussing above...
Thanks for the response. What do I connect to the input, full range front channels L/R or make it 4 channel stereo as it was in CCC before? Which channels will they go on H660?

Leaving PDX5 full range? even for the sub?
afsar is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 05:40 PM   #17
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by afsar View Post
Thanks for the response. What do I connect to the input, full range front channels L/R or make it 4 channel stereo as it was in CCC before? Which channels will they go on H660?

Leaving PDX5 full range? even for the sub?
Have a look above we should have covered it.

Not "full" as in introducing new freq range on the PDX-5 after H660 x-overs have been set, like setting the LPF (PDX-5) on your SWS-8 at 200Hz if you want them to run at 50Hz. But "full", as in if you want them to run at 40Hz (which is the max LPF on H660) you can set your LPF(PDx-5) to 30Hz since it won't go that low anyway(H660), and same for the HPF for the mids this won't go lower then 200Hz so you can leave them on say 150Hz. And then if you want to change it to say 220Hz, you can do it on the H660.

Either way, you will be dictated to by the H660, since it's HPF and LPF won't go as low your Amp's Filters.

Last edited by Pavlo; 01-19-2012 at 05:54 PM.
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-19-2012, 07:56 PM   #18
cdgatti
Major
 
cdgatti's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 328i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: KY

Posts: 1,320
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlo View Post
Well the 'Front 2' in our 3-way set-up is for the underseat drivers, so if your running your underseats as woofers then you LPF them. (which is what im doing)
So Pav are you saying that there will be a 'hole' from 40 to 200 Hz when using the 660 in our cars? I think that will be noticeable and not in a good way.
cdgatti is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-20-2012, 07:10 AM   #19
afsar
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW X5 xDrive40d
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London

Posts: 391
iTrader: (2)

Pav, perhaps you are talking about bi-amp configuration. Mine is not bi-amped neither I have separate subs in the trunk. My sws-8 are the only sub running off PDX-5 sub channel in mono mode (parallel wiring) and if I LPF them 50Hz they are not going to used until bass gets too low. I normally keep them between 110-90Hz. My door coaxials are diamond audio 343i and they are rated as 80Hz-20kHz onwards (as far as I remember) and parallel tweeters are 5k+. As cdgatti said if I setup as per your discussion above I will have a no driver playing 59-200Hz which doesn't sound good option to go for?

2nd question I had is why would I even tweak frequency range, isn't H660 suppose to automatically do it?
afsar is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-20-2012, 07:10 AM   #20
Pavlo
Private First Class
 
Pavlo's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 118D M-Sport Le Mans Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: England

Posts: 145
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti View Post
So Pav are you saying that there will be a 'hole' from 40 to 200 Hz when using the 660 in our cars? I think that will be noticeable and not in a good way.
No, there shouldn't be any "gap" so to speak, the 40Hz to 200Hz will be handled as a LPF by the underseats. All that me and Kai where talking about was that the 'Front 1' which would be for the doors mids/highs cannot go lower then 200Hz HPF, so to avoid the "gap" from accuring you need to make sure the under seats go up to 200Hz on LPF. This is what Kai was saying about “If you cross the underseats that high, you would probably want a steeper slope. As its slope is fixed 12dB/oct." And also if you like the sound of the mids/high at say 150Hz HPF then unfortunately since they don’t cross lower then 200Hz that lower 50Hz, will have to be taken care of by the underseats as a LPF. So as I was saying may not be ideal, but may also be fine, don't know how this will sound in real world terms. Will have to wait and hear for myself...
Pavlo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2012, 05:41 PM   #21
afsar
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW X5 xDrive40d
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London

Posts: 391
iTrader: (2)

Today I hooked H660 to the PDX-5 and surprisingly I don't see any noticeable difference. Music stage has been dragged a bit to the back, more towards the center of car, just behind my head towards the center. Volume is reduced a bit (yes I did increase H660's volume to the max) and rear PDC sensors aren't making any noise anymore, front one does.

I only connected the front to the L2 and R2 input of H660 as they are full range. Only thing I couldn't do is to connect PDX5 both sub input as I didn't have rca splitter connector. H660 gives only one sub out rca female and PDX has two input despite giving one mono output. Not sure if this makes a difference.

Tomorrow I will try stereo output connecting all 4 lines in and see if that makes a difference, if not it goes on ebay.

Last edited by afsar; 01-21-2012 at 05:56 PM.
afsar is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-21-2012, 06:35 PM   #22
afsar
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW X5 xDrive40d
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London

Posts: 391
iTrader: (2)

Just read their crappy manual again and looks like I need to tie L1 with L2 and R1 with R2 that will make my rear PDC go away. Will give it a try tomorrow.
afsar is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST