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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Factory Header Cat Delete!!!!! ( PICS INSIDE )



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      01-28-2012, 02:16 AM   #67
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did u notice any decrease in gas millage?
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      01-28-2012, 02:24 AM   #68
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My issue is i dont see how my oct is the issue this whole time since day one when i cut the cats ive been useing 93 oct just till here like 2 weeks ago i switched to 87 cause i didnt see the point of it since it was just being a pain trying new tunes from AA to see if my rear o2 go off and why my front o2 were staying rich!

Aside of the fact of higher oct being good for the motor yes it is but i run a add ever other fill up so thats tossed aside.

Ide really like some input from someone whos done this or has had after market headers and not from what people think they know about this cause not many people have done this mod or headers aftermarket for that fact!

sorry for the bluntness but damit i want my mpg back lol
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      01-28-2012, 02:34 AM   #69
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When it comes down to it, higher flowing headers should not reduce you MPG. Having less back pressure in your exhaust, which makes more HP at the top end should actually increase your MPG. And an engine that makes more HP with roughly the same ignition parameters should reduce how much fuel you need to go the same distance. I doubt the AA tune is adjusting for the free flowing exhaust setup and dumping that much more fuel into the intake.

I can't comment on the off-road AA tune or the headers but something seems off. I am not trying to hate I'm just trying to help!
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      01-28-2012, 02:51 AM   #70
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When it comes down to it, higher flowing headers should not reduce you MPG. Having less back pressure in your exhaust, which makes more HP at the top end should actually increase your MPG. And an engine that makes more HP with roughly the same ignition parameters should reduce how much fuel you need to go the same distance. I doubt the AA tune is adjusting for the free flowing exhaust setup and dumping that much more fuel into the intake.

I can't comment on the off-road AA tune or the headers but something seems off. I am not trying to hate I'm just trying to help!
yes sir i know im just to the point of thinking this was a bad idea but i wont this was a good idea! ive replaced coolent temp sensor oil temp sensor swaped mafs with my buddy and replaced both pre cat o2.s so im stuck i need to see my A/F to see what the cars doing at idle. cause i can let it sit at idle for 10 mins and watch my mpg meter on dash drop and drop and drop and drop till it hits 6mpg it stays solid till i start driving then it picks back up so thats kinda tricky to me u know.. what i was thinking is at cold start the o2's dump fule to warm up the car so im thinking its not clicking off warm up cycle on the car so idk i may be talking out of my ass at this point but who knows
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      01-28-2012, 06:02 PM   #71
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the reason you getting crappy mileage is your O2 sensors are not getting the correct reading form the cat delete, causing your ECU to put in more fuel, it's trying to get to the correct readings. probably why you're getting a SES code.
i have supersprint headers and i had the same thing, low gas mileage, engine ran erratic, plus SES code. to get rid of all that i put in O2 simulator, the engine really came alive, exhaust tone was louder, ran smoother and gas mileage back to normal. i never ran anything less than 92 oct though.
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      01-28-2012, 07:07 PM   #72
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the reason you getting crappy mileage is your O2 sensors are not getting the correct reading form the cat delete, causing your ECU to put in more fuel, it's trying to get to the correct readings. probably why you're getting a SES code.
i have supersprint headers and i had the same thing, low gas mileage, engine ran erratic, plus SES code. to get rid of all that i put in O2 simulator, the engine really came alive, exhaust tone was louder, ran smoother and gas mileage back to normal. i never ran anything less than 92 oct though.

booya. I think that is the answer. What type of sims did you use? Might help the OP if he used the same.
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      01-28-2012, 07:08 PM   #73
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the reason you getting crappy mileage is your O2 sensors are not getting the correct reading form the cat delete, causing your ECU to put in more fuel, it's trying to get to the correct readings. probably why you're getting a SES code.
i have supersprint headers and i had the same thing, low gas mileage, engine ran erratic, plus SES code. to get rid of all that i put in O2 simulator, the engine really came alive, exhaust tone was louder, ran smoother and gas mileage back to normal. i never ran anything less than 92 oct though.
well i have the AA off road tune (stage 2) to it turned off my rear o2's so i had no need for a o2 sim's. but i havent had a SES light in over 200miles. Whats weird to me is when my rear o2's were plugged in i kept throwing ses light it was for the rear sensor how could this be if they are off well i unplugged them and no more ses light and crap millage still! lol
and all codes were for bank 1 sensor 2 voltage low input. and bank 1&2 both sensor 1's were stuck rich.
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      01-28-2012, 08:34 PM   #74
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well i have the AA off road tune (stage 2) to it turned off my rear o2's so i had no need for a o2 sim's. but i havent had a SES light in over 200miles. Whats weird to me is when my rear o2's were plugged in i kept throwing ses light it was for the rear sensor how could this be if they are off well i unplugged them and no more ses light and crap millage still! lol
and all codes were for bank 1 sensor 2 voltage low input. and bank 1&2 both sensor 1's were stuck rich.
then you should contact AA. i also have AA tune and was thinking of getting the off road version but after talking to karl, he did not guarantee it will turn off all the O2 codes, so i went with the normal tune and got O2 sim from BMS.
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      01-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #75
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then you should contact AA. i also have AA tune and was thinking of getting the off road version but after talking to karl, he did not guarantee it will turn off all the O2 codes, so i went with the normal tune and got O2 sim from BMS.
OP, why don't you try the same sims and see if there is a change. If not you can try to put the "on road" tune and see if that makes a difference. Only factors I can think of. I hope you get it sorted out though. must be frustrating.
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      01-28-2012, 09:56 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by iLUVBMWS View Post
then you should contact AA. i also have AA tune and was thinking of getting the off road version but after talking to karl, he did not guarantee it will turn off all the O2 codes, so i went with the normal tune and got O2 sim from BMS.
ya i talked to karl as well and he said they are trying this new tune witch is the one AA is looking for a 330 for now and he told me they use the euro spec tune and mod it since some euro spec cars come catless. if anything i just might pulg back my o2's back up and install the sim to see if it helps.
Also did u replace the lead gaskits on the header to the block?? and dose your car sound like it has a exhaust leak at low rpms??

also im assuming i just need one o2 sim for this not two one for each o2

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      01-29-2012, 08:01 AM   #77
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one sim is all you need
yes, i replace all the gaskets and i'm hearing the leaking sound you're talking about but it does sound a little hollow, probably due to more flow
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      01-29-2012, 12:46 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by iLUVBMWS View Post
one sim is all you need
yes, i replace all the gaskets and i'm hearing the leaking sound you're talking about but it does sound a little hollow, probably due to more flow
ya kinda reminds me of a e4 m3 exhaust. the leaking sound is such a pain cause it plays with u
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      01-30-2012, 09:21 PM   #79
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Hey I have an E90 330 with cats problems (local dealer says I have to replace them), so instead of getting new ones I want to delete them just the way you did, but I want to go with the safest way, which would be aftermarket headers and turning software (for SES)?

After what you went through, what would you suggest?
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      01-31-2012, 12:40 AM   #80
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Delete cats, be careful remvoing o2's make sure u dont lay them on the ground or anything keep them clean put them in a zip lock bag. buy a bms o2 sim in advance befor this mod and buy 6 new gaskits for header u will mess one or two when removing and mocking up header to motor. as far as that enjoy and take your time!

Last edited by DJ Apex; 01-31-2012 at 02:54 AM.
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      01-31-2012, 04:26 PM   #81
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Delete cats, be careful remvoing o2's make sure u dont lay them on the ground or anything keep them clean put them in a zip lock bag. buy a bms o2 sim in advance befor this mod and buy 6 new gaskits for header u will mess one or two when removing and mocking up header to motor. as far as that enjoy and take your time!
Thanks! I think I might do that, I saw these OBX headers on ebay that caught my attention, instead of just using the factory headers:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...=220590867468+

So headers + 02 Sims should be enough to have my car running normally (without Cats), right? How about gas mileage, did you solve your problem?
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      01-31-2012, 06:09 PM   #82
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Thanks! I think I might do that, I saw these OBX headers on ebay that caught my attention, instead of just using the factory headers:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...=220590867468+

So headers + 02 Sims should be enough to have my car running normally (without Cats), right? How about gas mileage, did you solve your problem?
there are many many issues with obx headers search the forums for reviews and stuff. and no my mpg is still crappy im awating my bms o2 sim.
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      02-13-2012, 05:55 AM   #83
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did you get the sims yet?
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      02-13-2012, 08:58 AM   #84
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Will all due respect;

I wouldnt be surprised if your cheap renegade mods cost you more in the end then your initial savings! Let me explain.

You're running your car with poor quality fuel, a faulty O2 sensor, a custom made intake and complain about getting bad MPGs. A lot of people here tried to help and all you did was arguing. Good to see you're hearing them now and hope you realize that those savings can results in huuuuuge losses.

You pay twice the price of gas; because you waste a lot. You're getting dirty injectors because you're running rich as a sheik and on the top of it; will those mods cause premature usage of your components? I hope not for you! But nobody know at this moment; not even you. Stop trying to convince yourself.

I'm not here to try to tell you what to do; its your car. But this is not my first modded car. I did that kind of mods on my old Celicas and Civics because I knew that the mods werent worth the investment, and that I was ready to accept that this could cause severe permanent damage that will make the car not worth repairing afterwards. I had my share of issues and i've learned the hard way; trust me. You dont do this on a car you want to keep; especially a bimmer. I wont get burned twice. A wise man said: You gotta pay to play!

I just hope you're conscious about this and know this car will get old FAST and that there's a 50/50 percent chances that your engine will most likely fail in the upcoming years.

So that being said, I agree, you got balls, but I just hope it doesnt backfire in your wallet.
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      02-13-2012, 01:02 PM   #85
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Will all due respect;

I wouldnt be surprised if your cheap renegade mods cost you more in the end then your initial savings! Let me explain.

You're running your car with poor quality fuel, a faulty O2 sensor, a custom made intake and complain about getting bad MPGs. A lot of people here tried to help and all you did was arguing. Good to see you're hearing them now and hope you realize that those savings can results in huuuuuge losses.

You pay twice the price of gas; because you waste a lot. You're getting dirty injectors because you're running rich as a sheik and on the top of it; will those mods cause premature usage of your components? I hope not for you! But nobody know at this moment; not even you. Stop trying to convince yourself.

I'm not here to try to tell you what to do; its your car. But this is not my first modded car. I did that kind of mods on my old Celicas and Civics because I knew that the mods werent worth the investment, and that I was ready to accept that this could cause severe permanent damage that will make the car not worth repairing afterwards. I had my share of issues and i've learned the hard way; trust me. You dont do this on a car you want to keep; especially a bimmer. I wont get burned twice. A wise man said: You gotta pay to play!

I just hope you're conscious about this and know this car will get old FAST and that there's a 50/50 percent chances that your engine will most likely fail in the upcoming years.

So that being said, I agree, you got balls, but I just hope it doesnt backfire in your wallet.
But do you think that if he used high quality (or recommended) fuel, and he would've gotten appropiate or performance headers, wouldn't that be better than just use OEM headers with cats?
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      02-13-2012, 01:19 PM   #86
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Define better. Better performances; yes, but the overall comfort and unreliability makes the aftermarket headers not worth it to many people. But the faulty sensors + lesser quality fuel is really looking for trouble.

But for somebody that doesnt mind having a christmas tree in the cluster; i'm sure its a good decision; performance wise. Even the O2sims seams to give SES on a random schedule. People that bought SS or OBX headers had the same issue with the SES.
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      02-13-2012, 02:16 PM   #87
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It makes sense but I would definitely not want to spend $3k on buying new OEM headers with cats, when I have the choice of getting headers, gain some HP, have the engine breathe a little better and maybe gain some mpg.

I have this problem and I’m really not that interested in gaining HP and definitely don’t want to have SES turned on all the time (I have it now, dough).
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      02-13-2012, 07:39 PM   #88
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It makes sense but I would definitely not want to spend $3k on buying new OEM headers with cats, when I have the choice of getting headers, gain some HP, have the engine breathe a little better and maybe gain some mpg.

I have this problem and Iím really not that interested in gaining HP and definitely donít want to have SES turned on all the time (I have it now, dough).

From what I remember reading about gavin's headers which are a little under 1k. + o2 sim he doesn't have any SES going off.. and that sounds like a alternative to 3k OEM headers

im sorry to hear about all the trouble you're having... seems like its been going for a while... maybe if you drived like a normal citizen your mileage would be better. But please excuse me if i sound 'douche-y' haha I'm bias in my writing after reading about your poor mpg and watching a video of you going 60-160 =P
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