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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Worlds First... N54 Single Turbo Dynojet Result (Vishnu Procede tuned)



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      02-11-2012, 09:46 PM   #111
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To those worried about "lag" with one if these "large" single turbos, please remember us SRT4 guys that run PTE 5858, 6262, etc and have only 2.4L and 4 cylinders get full boost by ~ 4000-4500…you guys have 2 more cylinders to help with spool.

Knowing Shiv, I know he wont get "too" crazy with 76mm turbos like the Supra guys. He has been doing this stuff for many, many years and know exactly how to fit turbos to cars.

Can't wait to see this at the airstrip event Shiv!
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      02-11-2012, 09:51 PM   #112
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Another thing I wanted to say...he is starting the pulls at 2500k rpm, which will naturally make it look lmore laggy. I think everyone was just spoiled with the stock twins which acted more like a regular NA car than a turbo car.
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      02-12-2012, 03:01 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Thanks again for all the kind words guys. Again, this was a joint effort with FFTEC. Without the hardware doing what it was supposed to do, I would not have been able to tune anything. I'm just happy we are off to a quick and painless start (besides that whole CAS/steering column lock fiasco).

To answer some questions:

We aren't quite sure how the 6AT will hold up to the extra high RPM torque. I have some ideas to reduce torque during the shift. We'll see how that pans out soon enough.

I don't see why we could adapt this kit to work in an XI. When we are ready to do installs in customer cars, it would be nice to work on an XI for this reason alone.

By then, we should be able to finalize pricing. But please realize that this isn't a bare bones turbo kit. It's a full system with a TON of R&D put into it. It will work beautifully and I don't think anyone will be disappointed. I think the worst thing we could do is to start penny pinching bits to make it easier to manufacturer. From what I've seen with upgraded twins, it doesn't matter how much the turbo kit is when just one unexpected re-work involves 10 hours of uninstall/install labor. Get it right the first time.

Shiv
Hey, these look like some great numbers, and it's refreshing to finally see some positive, or, at least, hopeful, comments regarding the XI setup. I specifically got the AWD 335i because of the possibility of getting massive low end acceleration with the AWD grip. I'll be keeping my eye on this thread.

One question: Could the boost be modified to get the stock 335i torque at the same rpm? As in, the stock wheel torque is somewhere around 270 ft lbs at 2k rpm. Could this setup be modified to allow the customer to reach the 270 ft lbs at the same rpm? I definitely don't care about reaching max torque at that rpm, but it would be nice to at least reach the car's stock torque at that rpm!
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      02-12-2012, 03:31 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferruccio View Post
Hey, these look like some great numbers, and it's refreshing to finally see some positive, or, at least, hopeful, comments regarding the XI setup. I specifically got the AWD 335i because of the possibility of getting massive low end acceleration with the AWD grip. I'll be keeping my eye on this thread.

One question: Could the boost be modified to get the stock 335i torque at the same rpm? As in, the stock wheel torque is somewhere around 270 ft lbs at 2k rpm. Could this setup be modified to allow the customer to reach the 270 ft lbs at the same rpm? I definitely don't care about reaching max torque at that rpm, but it would be nice to at least reach the car's stock torque at that rpm!
In the dyno testing that I conducted a few days ago, I started the WOT run at ~2700rpm. Not the usual 1500-2000rpm. As a result the turbo spools up later than it does on the road. Dyno tested "properly", you'd see approx 5psi of boost at 2500rpm with full boost/peak torque by ~3800rpm. I didn't start at a low RPM since we need to write some code that keeps the DME happy from not achieving it's stock boost target at low RPM. But to answer your question, the car should make ~250-270lbft at 2500rpm. But we will never be able to touch the factory turbo's performance at lower engine speeds.

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      02-12-2012, 04:00 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I'd like to keep turbo specs to ourselves for now. I hope u understand. But this will not be the last turbo we run on this car during this testing period.
Wow that's awesome if true! If that's the case your kit will no doubt be the kit to buy.
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      02-12-2012, 04:13 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
In the dyno testing that I conducted a few days ago, I started the WOT run at ~2700rpm. Not the usual 1500-2000rpm. As a result the turbo spools up later than it does on the road. Dyno tested "properly", you'd see approx 5psi of boost at 2500rpm with full boost/peak torque by ~3800rpm. I didn't start at a low RPM since we need to write some code that keeps the DME happy from not achieving it's stock boost target at low RPM. But to answer your question, the car should make ~250-270lbft at 2500rpm. But we will never be able to touch the factory turbo's performance at lower engine speeds.

Shiv
Thanks for the info! I can deal with a 500 rpm delay of torque at the low end to get such an impressive upper end! I'll stay tuned
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      02-12-2012, 04:20 AM   #117
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A load-based dyne should produce an earlier spool as well.

Shiv, PLEASE eventually get PAW to send you an upgraded head! We need it tested and would be perfect combo with your kit.
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      02-12-2012, 09:06 AM   #118
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Excellent Shiv. Thanks again and a again for being a trailblazer!
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      02-12-2012, 09:58 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferruccio View Post
Hey, these look like some great numbers, and it's refreshing to finally see some positive, or, at least, hopeful, comments regarding the XI setup. I specifically got the AWD 335i because of the possibility of getting massive low end acceleration with the AWD grip. I'll be keeping my eye on this thread.

One question: Could the boost be modified to get the stock 335i torque at the same rpm? As in, the stock wheel torque is somewhere around 270 ft lbs at 2k rpm. Could this setup be modified to allow the customer to reach the 270 ft lbs at the same rpm? I definitely don't care about reaching max torque at that rpm, but it would be nice to at least reach the car's stock torque at that rpm!
In case you weren't aware, there is already massive low end acceleration available for the XI from any tuner by doing stage 2, a single turbo is hardly needed for that The top end is where the XI suffers...
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      02-12-2012, 12:25 PM   #120
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Looks like that single turbo is just the ticket for those of us with 6ATs. Judging from that torque curve it looks like its no more stressful than a properly running FBO meth setup on stock turbos.

How do you plan on exceeding 20 psi though? 3 bar MAP sensor?
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      02-12-2012, 12:35 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Looks like that single turbo is just the ticket for those of us with 6ATs. Judging from that torque curve it looks like its no more stressful than a properly running FBO meth setup on stock turbos.

How do you plan on exceeding 20 psi though? 3 bar MAP sensor?
If it can take the high rpm power... We'll have to see. I'm in the same boat as you.

Can't wait to see this beast when running full boost and controlled properly.
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      02-12-2012, 12:38 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Looks like that single turbo is just the ticket for those of us with 6ATs. Judging from that torque curve it looks like its no more stressful than a properly running FBO meth setup on stock turbos.

How do you plan on exceeding 20 psi though? 3 bar MAP sensor?
I think there is already an input on the Rev3 for that
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      02-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #123
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Why is boost manually controlled? Is he missing a part on order?
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      02-12-2012, 12:56 PM   #124
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Great achievement by Vishnu. I can't wait for it, as your people use to say
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      02-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisstik View Post
Why is boost manually controlled? Is he missing a part on order?
Currently our boost control solenoid output signal operates a frequency that is too high for the conventional solenoid that we are now using (200hz vs ~30-35hz). So a minor firmware revision is necessary. Should be sorted out within the next few days.
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      02-12-2012, 02:54 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Looks like that single turbo is just the ticket for those of us with 6ATs. Judging from that torque curve it looks like its no more stressful than a properly running FBO meth setup on stock turbos.

How do you plan on exceeding 20 psi though? 3 bar MAP sensor?
Shiv talked about the 3bar map sensor and showed some logs back in 2010, perhaps he'll be using some different components but the prospect is definitely not new news

Quote:
The 3-bar MAP sensor option consists of a Delphi sensor, a plug-and-play harness (taps into factory TMAP sensor for power and ground) and a 3-foot long signal wire that routes to the Procede harness. This way, you can plumb the MAP sensor just inches away from the pressure source for the fastest, least degraded signal response. We do NOT recommended mounting the MAP sensor in the ECU box or on the firewall since the long vacuum line will add an unwanted delay to the signal. In fact, for those running big fat turbos at high boost, we even recommended going a step further and tapping a new nipple into your plastic manifold so that the MAP sensor gets it’s own dedicated signal.

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      02-12-2012, 04:23 PM   #127
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      02-12-2012, 04:40 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
Shiv talked about the 3bar map sensor and showed some logs back in 2010, perhaps he'll be using some different components but the prospect is definitely not new news
Yea, I know all about the 3-bar map sensor solution he posted, my question is if he's planning on using it? I guarantee that turbo isn't even on the compressor map at even 20 psi. Some huge gains to be made going north of 20 psi. At the boost levels hes running it's not even the tip of the iceberg. Looking forward to seeing that in action. Wouldn't be surprised if they crack north of 600whp with enough boost and fuel.
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      02-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #129
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+1. Can't wait to see someone crack north of 20psi. The pull on the car will be incredible.
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      02-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #130
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Now all of a sudden even the nay sayers are interested in the developments.

I'm sure north of 20psi will be extreme power. With that said Shiv will be testing in the manner he always has safely and reserved. I look forward to the end results. I'm sure he has it planned at least a year out with competition in mind.

Last edited by SIKH335; 02-12-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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      02-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Yea, I know all about the 3-bar map sensor solution he posted, my question is if he's planning on using it? I guarantee that turbo isn't even on the compressor map at even 20 psi. Some huge gains to be made going north of 20 psi. At the boost levels hes running it's not even the tip of the iceberg. Looking forward to seeing that in action. Wouldn't be surprised if they crack north of 600whp with enough boost and fuel.
gotcha. The Mayan's may have predicted the end of the world in 2012.. but i think what they were really predicting was the year of the single turbo n54. can't wait to see the final results. like you said, this is the tip of the iceberg
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      02-12-2012, 04:49 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn555ic View Post
I think there is already an input on the Rev3 for that
Yep.. there is a 3bar MAPS sensor input on the Rev3. We will also consider just swapping out the factory 2.5bar sensor for a direct replacement 3bar unit. Pretty easy stuff to do. And judging by how quickly the engine wakes up when with each additional psi of boost, I'm also looking forward to seeing what this setup does at 23-24psi. I suspect we will see 600whp. And with still another 100+hp of overhead. I can't tell you guys how much of a blast it is to drive this car. Not just in terms of power but how smoothly and effortlessly the power is delivered. It makes running upgraded twins feel and sound very "coarse" in comparison.

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