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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Vorslag Camber Plates



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      02-22-2012, 11:32 PM   #1
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Vorslag Camber Plates

Picked up a set of camber plates from Harold at HP Autowerks. If anyone is in the market for anything suspension related, he is the man to go to.

I ordered them wednesday morning and received them at my door step friday morning. I was stunned at how fast they came..

Anyways, my question is I heard a bit of "info" from a shop today.

When I asked if they could do the whole marking thing for a track setup and a daily setup, they said they could but it wouldnt hold and that I would still have to come back in to fix the toe.

So my question is, what are people doing with their front camber setups?

Are people settling at a happy medium or is this info false?

If so, is the happy medium like a -3 degree or a 2.5?

I would feel much better doing the two setting and running max camber at track and having a good -2 or so for DD.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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      02-23-2012, 11:57 AM   #2
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Since the shock tower AND the camber plate are both slotted, getting the camber set properly with marks is nearly impossible. Just a small change in camber changes toe drastically.

It is nearly impossible get 3.0 degrees of camber on the E9x without M3 front lower control arms and slotting the shock tower to clear the shock nut. You will be best served installing the Vorshlag plates (best for BMWs by far) set one notch farther back for caster and slamming them in for about 2.5 degrees camber. Set toe either on the very low end of the spec or near zero to prevent poor tire wear. Rear camber should be -1.8-2.0, toe set to factory spec (0.30 degrees or 18' total toe in).

You should not see a lot of extra front tire wear, but there will be some accerelated inner shoulder wear. If they cup/feather, the alignment is wrong.
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      02-23-2012, 12:32 PM   #3
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I have them as well and have delt with this issue for soem time. Originally- I took them to my local shop and asked for a dual setup with marks. They told me what you heard...essentially it wouldn't work. I was sorta pissed beacuase Terr yFair (Vorshlag) has written a nice post in the past about doing this exactly. Anyway- I opted for an semi-aggressive setup for the street, but definitly a street setup. I want to say they put in -2 up front. Nothing special.

Fast forward to my next track day and my car was pushing like crazy. I started chunking my front right pretty badly. So I decided WTF/ I am ruining these tires anyway. So I lifted the car and slammed in the plates almost all the way. It was about 3 or 4 slash marks. I used my iphone (I have a clinometer app) and a board to measure the camber. It was about -3.5. I matched them up and hit my next session. Result was a huge improvement. So F- toe for me from now on- this is the way I will run. At the end of the day I jacked up the car and put them back to their original settings and drove home. This is not too scientific, but it worked for me.

regarding the shoock tower slots- I have those well marked and my M3 tower brace marked as well to try to match those damn things up when I move it.
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      02-23-2012, 01:28 PM   #4
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Increasing camber like you did has the added benefit of giving you toe out up front - great for the track, murder on the tires for the street. Marking the plates definitely helps, but there is no real way to guarantee that you get the camber set back properly, and the toe will definitely be off after you do.
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      02-23-2012, 02:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
Increasing camber like you did has the added benefit of giving you toe out up front - great for the track, murder on the tires for the street. Marking the plates definitely helps, but there is no real way to guarantee that you get the camber set back properly, and the toe will definitely be off after you do.
I agree. But I had to weigh destroying the tires at the track in a day or slowly destroying on the street and having great turn in at the track. Ultimately, I should get a regular alignment.
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      02-23-2012, 05:33 PM   #6
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Nah, if you're a real track junkie, set front camber as aggressive as you can get and zero the toe. Buy tires that you can have flipped on the rims - such as Bridgestone RE11 or others that are not labelled "inside / outside" - and just have them demounted and flipped once the inner shoulder wear gets bad, usually about 60-70% into the life of the tire anyway.
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      02-23-2012, 06:41 PM   #7
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Thanks for the helpful responses.

Im going in for install tomorrow and alignment sat.. I think ill go with settings:

Max camber front with as close at neutral and -2 in the back.

I read hack recommending 1/16 toe in for the toe front n back, any comments on that?

Also, is there a negative to going -2.5 rear as opposed to -2?
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      02-24-2012, 03:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
Since the shock tower AND the camber plate are both slotted, getting the camber set properly with marks is nearly impossible. Just a small change in camber changes toe drastically.

It is nearly impossible get 3.0 degrees of camber on the E9x without M3 front lower control arms and slotting the shock tower to clear the shock nut. You will be best served installing the Vorshlag plates (best for BMWs by far) set one notch farther back for caster and slamming them in for about 2.5 degrees camber. Set toe either on the very low end of the spec or near zero to prevent poor tire wear. Rear camber should be -1.8-2.0, toe set to factory spec (0.30 degrees or 18' total toe in).

You should not see a lot of extra front tire wear, but there will be some accerelated inner shoulder wear. If they cup/feather, the alignment is wrong.
+1 My setup and experience as well exactly. I wish I could go to 3d, but I got about 2.5 or 2.7 max. I'm goin' to see if I can do M3 lower arms, I still get front outside shoulder tire wear.
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      02-24-2012, 04:00 AM   #9
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>I read hack recommending 1/16 toe in for the toe front n back, any comments on that?

What I have... it makes for a quick car, I personally like it. I like to drive my car. Tramlining isn't as bad as I thought it may be on bad highways.

>Also, is there a negative to going -2.5 rear as opposed to -2?

If you get M3 front lower control arms and get -3.5D in front, go for it. Otherwise, you get more understeer again (because you're going to get more grip in back again when turning). I don't think this is a necessarily a bad thing. I am unlike most other posters around here that think understeer is evil. I prefer it somewhat, because I have been able to get the car to oversteer (especially with Vorshlags now) at corner exit. However, if I were you, stick to the "margins", you already have a big change in store for yourself. If you see rear outside shoulder tire wear (and your tire psi and temps are good) then maybe think about going more negative camber in the back.
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      02-24-2012, 12:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 View Post
Nah, if you're a real track junkie, set front camber as aggressive as you can get and zero the toe. Buy tires that you can have flipped on the rims - such as Bridgestone RE11 or others that are not labelled "inside / outside" - and just have them demounted and flipped once the inner shoulder wear gets bad, usually about 60-70% into the life of the tire anyway.
You may want to check your tires again because the RE-11 is labeled "outside/inside".

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/BigPic...=Potenza+RE-11
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      02-24-2012, 07:41 PM   #11
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Maybe he was thinking about the RE01Rs, the "old" RE11s. I still have a set of those and they're still pretty good, and can be flipped.
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