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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Rear PDC sensor PROBLEM after Alpine upgrade



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      02-22-2012, 02:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
Suggest it to your dealer then, let them know about the low level jumpers (show them pics from montr's thread).
I would open it, no probs, but there is a catch...
PDC sound by default is coming only from rear speakers which are even after upgrade still driven by HU directly, so believe whatever I change in amp it would affect thigs after Alpine amp eg. front speakers only.
Gong which is coming from front I have no problems with BT I don't have so can not say.

By the way, dealer ordered for me a new tweeter as they originally installed one with damaged membrane, will arrive end of next week.
Then they will also try to solve this PDC sound problem with recoding one more time or upgrading.
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      02-22-2012, 04:45 PM   #24
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I'm also going in for a check on Monday -- if there is nothing more they can do, then its going to be a PUMA case.
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      02-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #25
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A Puma case has now been opened with BMW.
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      02-28-2012, 10:47 AM   #26
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A Puma case has now been opened with BMW.
So nothing they could do.. Will see what my dealer will solve when they call me for damaged tweeter replacement...
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      02-28-2012, 06:53 PM   #27
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And... we have a response from BMW.

Per BMW, post-03/09 build E90's DO NOT NEED TO BE CODED.

So they want to 'uncode' my Alpine upgrade, removing the 676 from my VO. This will restore the volume of my BT/gongs/nav to their original value. It will also restore the EQ of the head unit. So it will then sound like crap again, but this time with supidly loud gongs (even when turned down all the way) Fannnnn-tastic.

I'm not bringing it back in to get this done. I'd rather find out a way to work out some combo of settings with NCS Expert on my own, or live with it the way it is.

Thanks BMW-- thank you for leaving me (and others) hanging on this one. I'll remember this when it's time to buy a new car.
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      02-28-2012, 07:13 PM   #28
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^ Interesting, and thanks very much for the update.

What about switching the amp jumpers...shouldn't be any more trouble than the numerous trips to the dealer you've already made :
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      02-29-2012, 09:11 AM   #29
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Hm interesting, i'm heading to my dealer this saturday...

I don't get one thing - why would Alpine upgrade sound like crap if uncoded and retrieved back to "Stereo"...
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      02-29-2012, 11:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catalyst Group
Hm interesting, i'm heading to my dealer this saturday...

I don't get one thing - why would Alpine upgrade sound like crap if uncoded and retrieved back to "Stereo"...
"stereo" is heavily eq'd by the head unit boosting bass and treble by rediculous levels
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      02-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #31
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Still, is this problem with the low pdc/bt/gong obligatory for every Alpine retrofit or not?

I mean, there must be some 100% working solutions...?

Last edited by Catalyst Group; 02-29-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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      02-29-2012, 04:02 PM   #32
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Small update... Opened amp today. There are 8 jumpers marked with high/low, 4 visible on photo from "montr" thread and 4 more under small PCB on which switch 1-2 is.
Tried first 4 on low, sound degraded from what I can say, volume from mid and tweeter reduced and from woofers increased highly. No change on gong/pdc.
Tried another 4 on low, sound also degraded and I got big noise, even when I switched off radio noise was still coming from speakers.
I swapped all jumpers back where they were... In this way I get most acceptable sound but PDC volume reduced.
I think I will stay this way if my dealer suggest to recode back to Stereo as solution.
Will see when they call me.
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      02-29-2012, 04:04 PM   #33
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Still, is this problem with the low pdc/bt/gong obligatory for every Alpine retrofit or not?

I'm mean, there must be some 100% working solutions...?
When I asked my dealer did they had this situation before he said they did not, even though they installed quite a few of Alpine kits.
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      02-29-2012, 06:09 PM   #34
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When I asked my dealer did they had this situation before he said they did not, even though they installed quite a few of Alpine kits.
It might also be limited to a production range of cars for all we know.

My opinion-- BMW realized they had a problem with PDC/Gong/BT/Nav after they told Dealers to code it in ISTA/P, and they revised the instructions to say that no coding was necessary.

Even with the lastest update to ISTA/P, the 'Alpine Hifi' coding selection is still present -- saw it myself.
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      02-29-2012, 06:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
"stereo" is heavily eq'd by the head unit boosting bass and treble by rediculous levels
And from my pre-coded but installed testing-- bass is WAY overdriven, the gongs are extremely loud (even if I turned them down in CIC), and the EQ does all sorts of horrible things to the sound.
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      03-01-2012, 03:18 AM   #36
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And from my pre-coded but installed testing-- bass is WAY overdriven, the gongs are extremely loud (even if I turned them down in CIC), and the EQ does all sorts of horrible things to the sound.
I had the dealer install the Alpine kit and supposedly do the coding. My gongs are ridiculously loud and I have it turned down all the way. I find everything a bit bright - treble too high and bass too low. I am hoping to get an answer back today from the dealer as to what they did with the coding.
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      03-01-2012, 08:17 AM   #37
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I had the dealer install the Alpine kit and supposedly do the coding. My gongs are ridiculously loud and I have it turned down all the way. I find everything a bit bright - treble too high and bass too low. I am hoping to get an answer back today from the dealer as to what they did with the coding.
Please do so!
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      03-01-2012, 12:33 PM   #38
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Tried to pm
Montr but seems like hes happy enough and doesnt wanna research more
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      03-01-2012, 03:37 PM   #39
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It turns out the dealer did no coding. They claim none was necessary.
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      03-01-2012, 05:17 PM   #40
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Let this serve as a warning to all who think about the BMW Alpine kit for your tweeter-less '10-'11ish 'Stereo'/base car-- it DOES NOT work as designed, and DO NOT install it, because it will not sound right without coding, and if you do code it, it will mess with your gong/BT/Nav/PDC volume levels.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't I guess... (
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      03-01-2012, 06:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exwoodchuck View Post
Let this serve as a warning to all who think about the BMW Alpine kit for your tweeter-less '10-'11ish 'Stereo'/base car-- it DOES NOT work as designed, and DO NOT install it, because it will not sound right without coding, and if you do code it, it will mess with your gong/BT/Nav/PDC volume levels.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't I guess... (
I maintain that the correct solution is one that is hardware and software based.
Software-> Hifi, flat signal
Hardware->low level input.

Unfortunately, my amp is not the alpine so I can't help further, to try and figure out the jumper combo.

My theory is thus.
  • Stereo coding - > Gong matches because it is designed to be a set level based on the HU power
  • HiFi, Hi level inputs --> Gong mismatch because, it is designed for low level inputs. The gong itself (as with the rest of the audio) is amplified MORE by the amp, with low level inputs. For a given volume level (dB) the volume knob will be lower (in clicks), thus they will be closer in relative volume. (Gong is not affected by volume knob position, so if you are listening to the head unit on high level inputs, you have to have it turned up high to give the amp enough voltage...So you are giving it the requisite voltage for music, but not the requisite voltage for the "gong"
  • HiFi coding, Low level input ->(theory) Gong matches because you drive around normally with the volume knob lower, and both gong and music are amplified more by the alpine (or other) amp.

Edit, the PDC is another issue altogether because the amplification analysis is inapplicable to the rear speakers. No matter what, the rear speakers are getting the HiFi (max 5v) voltage when they were designed for stereo (9v). Only solution for them I can think of is the UNCODED solution, but that gives you shitty EQ

There is a final possibility that there are discrete variables that can be changed with NCS expert for these volume levels. I would push that back to the coding community to try and "search" for HiFi or Stereo references (or PDC) in their files, to see if any variables can be changed.
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      03-01-2012, 06:23 PM   #42
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Taibanl... I think you're on the right track... mostly!

I'm coded Hifi -- and I've noticed while poking around in my .trc for CIC, these little gems-
VOLUME_ADJ_1
e90_hifi
VOLUME_ADJ_2
e90_hifi
VOLUME_ADJ_3
e90_hifi
VOLUME_ADJ_4
e90_hifi
VOLUME_MAXIMUM_TEL
e87_hifi
VOLUME_MINIMUM_NAVI
e90_hifi
VOLUME_MINIMUM_TM
e90_hifi
VOLUME_MINIMUM_TEL
e90_hifi
VOLUME_KLANG_1
e90_hifi
KLANG_OFFSET
standard
VOLUME_PDC
e90_hifi
VOLUME_DELTA_PDC_ENTER
e87_hifi

My theory (aided by the scotch in my hand...) is that one or more of these values controls the volume table for the gong (KLANG ?), PDC (PDC - I got that one!), Nav (NAV ?) and Bluetooth (TEL ?). By recoding one or more of these values back to e90_stereo, I might be able to get the increased volume I'm looking for.

Comments on my theory?
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      03-01-2012, 06:27 PM   #43
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Well what are you waiting for...back up your files and try! Change pdc to _stereo and see if that fixes it. Then try the others!

I am not a coder so...
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      03-01-2012, 06:30 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl
Well what are you waiting for...back up your files and try! Change pdc to _stereo and see if that fixes it. Then try the others!

I am not a coder so...
Edit. Bc of the differential power you may have to mix variables between pdc and others
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