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      03-07-2012, 01:05 AM   #67
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Shame about the Z4 ///M - anyone that says an e89 ///M is diluting the line is full of crap.
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      03-07-2012, 01:17 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw1M
Great. Please don't turn BMW to Mercedes. Great decision.
+1!!!! Would have sucked to see an X3 and ///M3 with the same engine and stuff.

The high performance diesels in the M Performance line would be a great option though for the X3.....would make it a bad ass little SUV / SAV.

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      03-07-2012, 01:44 AM   #69
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The only experience I have with M cars is riding in my buddy's E60 M5 so my experience is limited. Perhaps I'm missing something here but why must M cars only be track ready coupes and sedans? Is it out of tradition? Even the Z4M is getting scrapped.

The auto industry is continually evolving and the hottest car segment right now are small/mid-sized crossovers. BMW claims to build "the ultimate driving machine" but doesn't have any plans to build a X3M even though Audi is building an S version of the Q5 and Porsche is building the Cajun which you better believe will perform fantastically as a poor performing Porsche is probably more of a hearsay than a diluted M line up. I believe MB is right in their decision to offer AMG versions on almost all of their cars as they probably understand that most people who buy high performance AMG, M, or RS models aren't tracking the cars, they're driving it around town or to the office and home.

To the individual who says there's no market for a X3M I'd have to disagree, provide the auto market with a high performance small crossover with xDrive so you get great performance rain or shine, and the brand image that BMW conveys and it'll be a hit. Plus if BMW stays true to their motto by building the ultimate driving machine they'll just take the money from the increase in sales and invest it to the rest of the line up.
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      03-07-2012, 01:49 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
If they are going to make any M-suv it should be on the lighter more nimble X3 platform.

They don't want to eat into the already limited sales numbers of the X5M/X6M. It is a niche low volume seller.

At a minimum the X3M would push twice as many units.
Totally agree. There's definitely a market for it but it's a shame it's not happening now, I was very interested in one.
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      03-07-2012, 02:07 AM   #71
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I WAS BUYING THE X3M - But not anymore!!

Thanks for the clarity, now I can stop thinking about it.
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      03-07-2012, 02:38 AM   #72
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thank you!!!
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      03-07-2012, 03:56 AM   #73
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This naturally raises the question of why we dispense with the models.
Both X3M and Z4M would be relatively easy to implement. Parts can be found on the shelf sufficient.

Except for the engine! The V8 will not fit in two under the hood.
Thus, only the engine would remain in the next M3 ...

He opens up new unconscious speculation!
Because both the Z4 and X3 in the R6 would have been working with 3.0 liters ... so the next M3 could really make a get R6, then this engine will certainly be introduced with little effort.
A V6, however one would have already put a lot of effort into it and that would be risky for the remaining term of the two models in terms of expected numbers of very.
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      03-07-2012, 04:24 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
This naturally raises the question of why we dispense with the models.
Both X3M and Z4M would be relatively easy to implement. Parts can be found on the shelf sufficient.

Except for the engine! The V8 will not fit in two under the hood.
Thus, only the engine would remain in the next M3 ...

He opens up new unconscious speculation!
Because both the Z4 and X3 in the R6 would have been working with 3.0 liters ... so the next M3 could really make a get R6, then this engine will certainly be introduced with little effort.
A V6, however one would have already put a lot of effort into it and that would be risky for the remaining term of the two models in terms of expected numbers of very.

That is also my thinking. BMW does not want to put the S65 into the Z4 for obvious reasons. An I6 would not be a problem but because the M3 is getting a V6, the implant is going to be more costly. This does not mean we won't see and Z4 M35i LCI, instead of the Z4 sDrive35is, and an X3 M35i with probably also a diesel version.
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      03-07-2012, 06:28 AM   #75
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E63 with the M157 has more tuning potential. Doesn't hurt the E63 is lighter, a couple magazines believe steering feel and handling is better in the E63.
I've never driven either so I can't vouch for steering feel and handling. However, I think where the M5 would shine would be the 'overall' package. As the quote goes: "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"

BMW is notorious for the whole package deal that makes the car so great.

On a personal note, not a big fan of the Mercedes E/S-class styling. The only Mercedes "style" I like are the SLK, SL and SLS. They really need to do something about that finned front grill on their E and S Class... reminds me of old people for some reason...
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      03-07-2012, 08:04 AM   #76
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whats the point of M5 Touring anyway? racing around with a load of .. whatever at the back? cant see the point...
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      03-07-2012, 09:10 AM   #77
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E85 is just too old to try to sneak an ///M model in. Yeah, they rushed out the 1M, but that was probably not the way they like to do it.

I think an X3M would be rather cool.
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      03-07-2012, 09:41 AM   #78
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x3M had a lot of interest in that.
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      03-07-2012, 10:55 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
aajami

You really think there is no market for a X3M? Ha
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Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
I think you are underestimating the market for a X3M.

The X5M/X6M should end production. The X3M/X4M would move many more units.
Maybe I'm mistaken about the potential size of the market, but I don't know of a single high-powered mid-sized ute. Certainly, the high-powered full-size ute category is ripe with competition from the likes of the X5M, ML63, GL63, and Cayenne Turbo, but where are the mid-size equivalents? I guess they'll soon be upon us with the X3 M35i and the QS5.

Because of its sportier profile, I totally get making a high-power version of the X4. The Macan will be right up the X4M's alley, as would any high-power version of the Evoque.
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      03-07-2012, 10:57 AM   #80
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I think they want to present a completely new engine first in the new M3/4 and after that move it to other models, like X3, X4 or Z4....
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      03-07-2012, 11:21 AM   #81
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The X3 xDrive35i is already multitudes faster and more agile than the top of the line, Q5 3.2. If Audi were to make an SQ5, it would likely match the numbers of the 35i. If you notice, the 335i competes with the S4 and the 550i competes with soon-to-be S6. BMW's top range, non-M models compete with Audi's S models, and BMW's M models compete with Audi's RS models.
This is 100% correct, now if Audi had its SQ5 out, I might have considered it over the X3 35i, BUT it would not be faster, it will most likely have the 330 HP S engine and equal 0-60 time as the X3 35i (just like the 335i and S4). If BMW releases any sort of MX3 (sounds like a Mazda) it will easily outperform the SQ5. Only thing the SQ5 will have going for it is being a little more sporty than the X3 (even with M Sport package) because Audi is changing the exhaust setup and interior (seats, steering wheel) a little for the SQ5, BMW only changed the bumpers and steering wheel.
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      03-07-2012, 11:22 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Maybe I'm mistaken about the potential size of the market, but I don't know of a single high-powered mid-sized ute. Certainly, the high-powered full-size ute category is ripe with competition from the likes of the X5M, ML63, GL63, and Cayenne Turbo, but where are the mid-size equivalents? I guess they'll soon be upon us with the X3 M35i and the QS5.
This is percisely what I'm concerned about. Small/mid-sized utes is the hottest car segment right now and both Audi and Porsche are building high-powered versions. How can you claim to be "the ultimate driving machine" based on the cars you build when you don't even have a contender in the segment?

Quote:
Because of its sportier profile, I totally get making a high-power version of the X4. The Macan will be right up the X4M's alley, as would any high-power version of the Evoque.
My only concerned about a X4M is it might be too polarizing like the Evoque. People either like the half-suv and half-coupe style or they hate it.

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Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
I think they want to present a completely new engine first in the new M3/4 and after that move it to other models, like X3, X4 or Z4....
I agree, this is pretty much what I also said in another thread. BMW probably doesn't want to use the tri-turbo being developed for the new M3 and they can't use the N54 like the did in the 1M coupe unless they also make the X3M and Z4M limited production models.
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      03-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #83
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My only concerned about a X4M is it might be too polarizing like the Evoque. People either like the half-suv and half-coupe style or they hate it.
This will be the case for sure, same with the X6 (X6M), some will love it (like myself) and others will just hate it, but BMW is making money on them (all versions fo the X6) which means in general people like them.

Personally I really like the 4 door Evoque and can't stand the 2 door (most people are opposite I think). a 2 door SUV just looks horrible and is really pointless. I really hope BMW doesn't make the X4 2 doors or at least they better offer a 4 door one like Porsche and Land Rover are doing.

The whole reason I would consider a X4M is because I have a family (2 young kids), don't want a 5 series or larger, but would like a little more room than my C63 offers, and don't like wagons (like most people in the US, they just never caught on here, which is a whole different discussion). Also the AWD in the X4 would be huge for me, sure I can drive in the snow/ice with RWD, have been doing it for years with winter tires, but its so much easier with AWD, haha. I am at the point where I like practical and simple things but still love the power, so X4M would be a great option (as my only other choice would be an Audi RS4 which Audi already said will not come to the US ). As my kids get older I will probably be looking for a Z4M/M4 coupe, RWD (maybe manual if its made).
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      03-07-2012, 11:42 AM   #84
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I think 2014 for the Z2. Maybe an internet reveal in 2013. I think the Z2 will be FWD models if I am not mistaken.


- J
I remember hearing that rumor, but I hope the Z2 models don't turn out to be FWD. I also recall Scott recently mentioned how much demand there was worldwide for the original Z3. While the current Z4 has moved significantly up market since then, there should certainly be demand for a back-to-basics, smaller, RWD roadster/coupe to take over where the Z3 left off. Hopefully the Z2 will be that car.
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      03-07-2012, 11:54 AM   #85
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^ Remember that when the z3 came out, there was virtually no competition -- Porsche Boxter/Audi TT/Mercedes SLK all came out later. The market is much more competitive, though I agree - I'd much rather buy a smaller Z2M without a fancy folding hardtop than the e89

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This comes as bad news for E85/6 Z4M owners and E61 M5 owners who were hoping to make a switch to the latest generation M models
nope, quite happy with my e86 and thanks for keeping its resale value high if I ever am facing bankruptcy
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      03-07-2012, 12:03 PM   #86
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I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I don't really care if BMW makes a supercar or not -- I've avoided that entire discourse because, frankly, I don't intend to ever buy a supercar in my lifetime unless I win the lotto. Make one or not, it doesn't affect my day-to-day life

@ Geneva or in other business you are a guest and you do not tell the host what should be done.

Oh, I get it. Product planning changes all the time. Especially when your development cycle is on the order of 60 months from concept to market. You'll hear no complaints about back and forth from me.



I never understood the desire to make an X3M. There is no market for it, and the Q5S (or whatever it'll be called) and the Macan seem more likely competitors to a potential X4M than an X3M.

The issue regarding X3M and X4M is that the larger X5M and X6M will not be in production. Allowing a line of sustainability until the replacements.


I know the ship has sailed, but why didn't BMW consider forgoing a Z4M Coupe altogether and just focus on offering a Z4M roadster with the S65? Fitment's not an issue, as the P65 is used in the Z4 GT4. Or a more focused version of what ended up becoming the 35is.

What everyone seems to have forgotten. Is that the S65 V8 "Dies" within the next year it would not be worth it for a short-term model in terms of making it meet future emissions.

quoting this for posterity
I was referring in balance between the E60 and E61. I prefer the E61 because it is in essence a Space shuttle. I have not driven the F10 M5 far partially because I love the 320d I have. It is effortless.

And why won't you reveal the chassis designation of the 4-series GC?
F36.

Quote:
whats the point of M5 Touring anyway? racing around with a load of .. whatever at the back? cant see the point...
There is much more to the E61. Many journalists thought that the M5 Touring was much better to drive than the sedan. It is a rocketship and the fact that you can have that flexibility makes it even better. M5 Touring is one of the best cars I have ever owned.

Even if there were an F11 M5 Touring - BMW would not sell it in the US Market. The anti-wagon market has now claimed another victim. Jaguar are not bringing the XF Sportbrake to the US.
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      03-07-2012, 12:12 PM   #87
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Personally I really like the 4 door Evoque and can't stand the 2 door (most people are opposite I think). a 2 door SUV just looks horrible and is really pointless.
Crossover SUV's may be pointless as two door models, but that is not the case for traditional SUV's. The point of a two door SUV like a Jeep Wrangler, Land Rover D90, or Toyota FJ for example is to have a shorter wheelbase making it more agile for four wheeling on a trail. That of course doesn't apply to crossover SUV's, so I guess the only reason for a two door crossover is the look, which is like the usual coupe vs sedan debate.
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      03-07-2012, 01:21 PM   #88
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F36
Thanks, Scott.

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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The issue regarding X3M and X4M is that the larger X5M and X6M will not be in production. Allowing a line of sustainability until the replacements.
Does that mean that BMW will not make an X5M or X6M and relegate those two SUVs to just the M Performance range after this generation?
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