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      02-21-2012, 06:41 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by xenon View Post
There's confusion over units by the look of it:

35 micrograms of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath; or
80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood; or
107 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of urine.
Well if it was all in milligrams then it migh be more confusing since 35microgrammes would be 0.035milligrams
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      02-21-2012, 06:53 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by doc_ab View Post
Well if it was all in milligrams then it migh be more confusing since 35microgrammes would be 0.035milligrams
That would be less confusing, using the same unit would make the relative amounts more clear IMO.
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      02-21-2012, 06:55 AM   #25
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I completely agree, just don't drink if you drive.

Doughboy, it's normally just done on breath. If you blow over at the roadside you are arrested and taken in. You are then put onto an evidential breath machine which is far more accurate. 2 specimens of breath are then taken, and the lowest one is used. In the met the charging standard is 40+ mg, but between 40-50 the option of a blood/urine sample is given. 50+ it is not and it's a straight charge. The differences in rates for blood and urine have been given by medical experts and I can't comment on the body's absorption rates etc that's outside my field of experience.

Blood is not normally taken unless its close to the lower end of the scale. I think counties charge at 38+ mg.
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      02-21-2012, 08:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Sorry OT....
Drinks wise, 1 standard UNIT is 10ml (or 8mg) of pure alcohol (i.e. 568ml of stella 5% = 28.4ml alcohol = 2.84 units) The goverment don't publicise that simple fact as they think we're to stupid to work it out (no really)

I've never been quite sure how the limit works, because if the blood limit is 80mg (i.e 100ml) of alcohol, then by that method you could drink 10 units or 3 pints of stella in one and still never be over the 80mg limit as those 3 pints don't even contain 80mg of acohol??

I think you are out by a factor of 1,000 on your units: assuming a specific gravity of alcohol of 0.8 (ie 80% of water) then:

10mL = 8 GRAMS ie 8,000 milligrams. Or 8 million micrograms.
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      02-21-2012, 08:42 AM   #27
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Yep, sorry 0.001L = 0.001kg (water), x0.8 = 0.0008kg alcohol.

That means my units calc was BS - shit!

So at 80mg / 100ml blood that means, assuming a blood content of 8 pints (4.54L) that's only 3.6g of alcohol in your bloodstream at one time.

i.e. 4.5ml alcohol or 0.45 units!
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      02-21-2012, 08:50 AM   #28
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Probably dribble out the rest!
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      02-21-2012, 09:00 AM   #29
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Easier to stick to the 2 weak pint rule, or just throw up before you get in the car, get rid of some unwanted units!
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      02-21-2012, 11:29 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
That would be less confusing, using the same unit would make the relative amounts more clear IMO.
Units are irrelevant in this setting although you are measuring in different media i.e air and liquid. It is the convention in scientific circles to change to different units when otherwise you would get silly numbers such as 0.035. Drugs are dispensed like this and research suggest that less errors occur than would occur if the same units were used because there is more likely to be an error with decimal point placement than with use of incorrect units. In a way units are irrelevant for drink driving because 35 mcg / 100 mls of air if the punter thought it should be milligrams then he would have drunk 1000x as much alcohol!
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      02-21-2012, 04:33 PM   #31
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I see even the resident expert gets the units wrong too

35g in 100ml of breath is the correct value, not 35mg (milligrammes)
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      02-25-2012, 06:39 PM   #32
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Hi all.
As someone living in France i have always understood the legal limit here to be less than that in the uk. Regarding the GPS detectors we are required to update our units in order to remove any mention of speed cameras and they are also in the process of removing the camera warning signs. You have been warned!!
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      03-05-2012, 03:01 PM   #33
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Confirmed by the AA on their web site.

Speed camera alerts in France
All systems now illegal whether radar detector or satnav/gps


All systems now illegal whether radar detector or satnav/gps

While radar speed camera detectors may still be legal at home the 2006 Road Safety Act did include enabling provisions allowing the Secretary of State to make regulations to prohibit them but this hasn't been done yet the position is different abroad where many countries have laws in place banning the carrying or use of these devices.

For some years now it is has been strictly forbidden under article R413-15 of the French 'Code de la Route' (highway code) to have a speed camera detector in a car in France, regardless of whether or not it is being used.

Penalties can include fines of up to 1,500, confiscation of the device and of the vehicle.

Until recently this legislation didn't apply to satellite navigation or other GPS-based systems capable of displaying fixed speed camera locations as points of interest (PoI).
New law in France
Effective from 3 January 2012 French laws prohibiting drivers from carrying devices capable of detecting speed cameras have been extended to include devices able to warn or inform of the location of speed cameras e.g. satnav or gps systems capable of showing speed camera sites as PoI.

As well as now banning all devices capable of warning drivers of speed camera locations, the French government is installing around 400 new fixed speed cameras and is taking down road signs indicating the location of existing fixed speed camera sites.

What should you do
If you have a satnav capable of displaying French camera locations in France then you must at least disable camera alerts before driving in France. We recommend that you contact the manufacturer of the satnav for advice as it is likely that a software or database update is available that will actually remove camera data for France from the device.

If you have a satnav system built into your car then we recommend contacting the vehicle manufacturer in the first instance.

Further advice
Driving regulations and customs in France are different to the UK. There are severe and rigidly enforced penalties for all road traffic infringements. These include imprisonment and a heavy fine for causing death whilst driving over the alcohol limit or under the influence of drugs.

There are also similar penalties for causing death by dangerous or negligent driving.

The French police apply speeding restrictions strictly and if you exceed speed limits you will face heavy on-the-spot fines.

If you break French driving laws you can also have your UK driving licence confiscated by French Police. This could lead to your vehicle being temporarily impounded if no alternative driver with a valid licence is available.

(16 February 2012)
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      03-05-2012, 05:20 PM   #34
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Fuck the French and their road laws - I don't intend going anywhere near the godforsaken place.
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      03-05-2012, 05:28 PM   #35
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Fuck the French and their road laws - I don't intend going anywhere near the godforsaken place.
+1 although If I don't want an even longer drive back home I need to go via france, going via holland is just a pain in the ass, my nav system does not show me cameras here in switzerland but does in france, begium, Germany and the UK, hopefully the Garlic eating surrender monkeys will look at the Swiss reg and leave me alone! Lets hope we can give them a good spanking in the Rugby next weekend.
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      03-05-2012, 06:30 PM   #36
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Fuck the French and their road laws - I don't intend going anywhere near the godforsaken place.
You might not like their road laws but godforsaken it is not. France has more tourists than any other country in the world. The best wine in the world, some of the best food, great countryside, culture etc etc. Off to the Rhone wine tasting next month (but won't be driving).
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      03-08-2012, 07:16 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by doc_ab View Post
You might not like their road laws but godforsaken it is not. France has more tourists than any other country in the world. The best wine in the world, some of the best food, great countryside, culture etc etc. Off to the Rhone wine tasting next month (but won't be driving).
And much as it pains me to say it, generally better roads than the UK.
We may have better "driving" roads, but only relatively short ones, and there's always some other dickhead on there too!
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      03-08-2012, 08:13 AM   #38
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The French have a lot of laws but they don't really enforce them that much.

Driving in France in general is a more relaxed affair than driving in England.
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