E90Post
 


N54Tuning.com
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Your experiences with other chipped cars and wear and tear?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-04-2007, 08:25 AM   #1
timn
First Lieutenant
33

 
timn's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palo Alto, Ca


Posts: 321
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to timn
Your experiences with other chipped cars and wear and tear?

I was wondering what other peoples' experiences were with chipped cars, such as Audis, WRX's, EVOs, and VW's. What I'm looking for is to see how other cars are doing after 1, 2, 3, or 4+ years of being chipped? Are their motors dying prematurely or going on strong (generally speaking, of course)?

I haven't gone with the procede, turbo tuner, xede because I'm fearful of looking back and saying, "i shouldn't have done that", if my engine took a dive. I know that adding one of these performance mods is a risk, but I think this information will help me and others in making the decision.
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 11:03 AM   #2
turbojet3
First Lieutenant
United_States
3

 
turbojet3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: C. FL.


Posts: 325
iTrader: (0)

Twenty years ago I spooled up a Dodge Daytona turbo 4 cyl to nearly 300HP
with a Chrysler Direct Connection kit. I never had a problem with it. I don't think the piggybacks are pushing these engines even close to dangerous levels.
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 01:24 PM   #3
Crazy Bimmer
The Jesal
United_States
209

 
Crazy Bimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago IL


Posts: 5,830
iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to Crazy Bimmer
My last car was chipped for 45k miles. No major issues at all but of course this was on a 04 1.8t where people knew that engine could handle it.
__________________
2009 E90 M3 - SOLD
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 02:17 PM   #4
purplewidow
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
40

 
purplewidow's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chicago


Posts: 1,928
iTrader: (2)

i had an ecu flash done on my e34 540 dinan 5 in about 2000 and havn't had one related problem to either the ecu flash or the trans flash(auto revs about 750 rpm higher than stock)!!!! so 6 years and 65k added to a total of 129k and actually i get comps from the techs at how great everything looks ie. cylinder piston wear etc etc... can't wait to do the same to my 335
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 03:30 PM   #5
Driver72
Brigadier General
194

 
Drives: 335i - to new owners now.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California


Posts: 4,485
iTrader: (0)

I had a chip on my Subaru Legacy GT.
These chips will certainly to many degrees lower the life span of the engine...more stress, more heat, more wear and tear.
But would i worry about it in terms of "will my car explode in the next year or two or three" absolutely not.

Engines are made much better today than they were 20 years ago, and tuning car, and turbocharged cars back then was somewhat common.

If you plan to keep your car for 150,000 miles then you might want to avoid the chips. But even then, unless you are pounding on your car everyday, a chipped engine will still run 150K miles with no issues if you maintain the car properly.

If you have any reservations get a PROcede or similiar and get a custom tune that's less aggressive than what the v1.47 and upcoming 2.0 are.
I wouldn't do this custom tune yourself though, you'll need to pay a professional tuner for it.
Or maybe Shiv will do it.
I think it would be a great idea for him to offer a conservative tuned option.
Call it v1.9 LPO (for Lower Power Output).
This tune would roughly put out about 10-15 rwhp and rwtq less than his original PROcede v1.2, but have all the added features the updates have provided.

Perfect option for guys like yourself who want extra power but want to be conservative with it.
He currently has a Lower Boost Target version, but it's miniscule less power than the full on version and only less at the top end (5-6 hp I believe).
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 04:55 PM   #6
zenmaster
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
30

 
Drives: '13 AH3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta


Posts: 1,613
iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't this depend entirely on what the chip changed? Wouldn't a better question be something like "what are your experiences with running X % of power over stock"? And even then, "premature" death really comes down to how often that power is used. The toll on a car due to how it is driven should be the primary question, with the chip being secondary as far as conditions affecting lifespan of engine/powertrain.
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 08:37 PM   #7
My E90
Captain
United_States
16

 
Drives: '13 E92 M3 6MT SSII
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Floorida


Posts: 759
iTrader: (2)

I've had one good and one not so good experience with turbocharged cars with a chip.

The good: 2000 VW Golf 1.8t. Chipped at 20K miles and sold it with 76K (7 years) on the odo. The car got regular synthetic oil changes every 4K miles and never even blinked. The turbo was a little louder than when it was new but still made good power.

The not so good: 2001 Audi S4 (I was second owner). Chipped at about 2K miles but passenger side turbo died at 38K miles. To be fair to the S4, these cars are known to eat stock turbos when you chip them. There's very little room in the engine bay and they tend to overheat and go kaput. It didn't take long for the Audi community to find this out. I'm very happy with the 335 but I still miss driving the S. If only they weren't so expensive to maintain...

I'm sure we'll know in less than a year just how good these engines are but so far so good.
__________________
'13 M3 E92 SSII | 6MT | ZCP | ZPP | EPS | NAV | MPE | ED & PCD
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 09:02 PM   #8
pauly1
Enlisted Member
3

 
Drives: Nikes
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ny


Posts: 45
iTrader: (0)

The cars you mentioned are all forced induction, but there are still plenty of engine management upgrades for naturally aspirated vehicles as well. I've had 2 Acura RSX's, running reflashed ECUs from Hondata. Both were leased and after 3 years there were zero problems.

In the end, it all depends on the quality of the tuner and how well the program was written. From the reseach I've done, and following the R&D process from Vishnu, they really seem to have done their homework. I don't know what Version 2 will look like, but I think they are going to keep thing in check. That said though, I think they are getting very close to the limit in terms of power and torque.
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 10:16 PM   #9
SW335
Private First Class
United_States
7

 
Drives: 2007 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: California


Posts: 142
iTrader: (1)

7 years and 111k miles on a chipped audi a4. ate turbos, but that was a different issue. the engine handled up to 30lbs of boost like a champ year after year. the right chip is not an issue. the question you have to ask, is which is the right one and is it well developed.
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 11:05 PM   #10
Cadillac Johnson
Free taco with stolen base
19

 
Cadillac Johnson's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i? GTR? RS5?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Milwaukee


Posts: 639
iTrader: (0)

This all depends on the tune or "chip" some tunes are actualy going to be better for the motor, some will be worse.

Just cause someone has good luck with a tuned VW doesn't mean that your going to have good luck with a tuned BMW.

Stick with knowledgable and reputable tuners and you'll be fine.
Appreciate 0
      07-04-2007, 11:58 PM   #11
Terry335
Banned
United_States
69

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Socal


Posts: 2,587
iTrader: (0)

There are plenty of variables and plenty of things to go wrong. For example the more boost you run, the more stress on the turbo and the more likely you are to blow a seal, hurt a bearing, "grenade it", etc. The more power you make the more likely you are to break the transmission, half shaft, etc. As far as the engine itself, you need to make sure you're not triggering the knock sensors under real world driving conditions (not just on a cool night or on higher octane). Overall, I think if you stick to around 12psi or less and the tune is OK things will hold together.

To answer the question more directly I ran around 16psi on my old SRT4 (4psi? more than stock, its been awhile) with no issues for around 2 years. I had an older 300z that I ran 50-60% more boost on with no long term issues. Also had an old Maserati Bi-Turbo that held together well with ~30% more boost. Most of the problems I've had have come from aftermarket turbo/supercharger kits on cars that were naturally aspirated to begin with. Tried 12psi on a 11:1 compression motor once, oops!
Appreciate 0
      07-05-2007, 02:32 AM   #12
timn
First Lieutenant
33

 
timn's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palo Alto, Ca


Posts: 321
iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to timn
I totally understand that "it all depends on the chip you use", "the boost you're going with", and the "go with a reputable tuner". But with this new motor, theres no where to really judge what is safe, who is reputable (just because chips have been out for 6 months with no one blowing doesn't exactly mean it's safe for the long term). This is just to get an idea of what other people have had experience with.

Most likely, people will go with the best thing out there, if everyone is raving that chip X gets 50% more hp and torque, and someone hasn't had problems for x months, people will get it. But then again, on a 1.8T, someone could have said that 4 years ago, and what I want to find out is how they are doing now, when they obviously thought it was "safe" back then...

so this is in no way a very accurate way of judging whether or not to get it, because none of us really know how things will be in 2, 3, or 4+ years, right? (you can't guarantee to me that my engine will be ok if i take good care of things).

But all the responses have been great!
Appreciate 0
      07-05-2007, 02:44 AM   #13
e.n335
Moderator
Austria
204

 
e.n335's Avatar
 
Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH


Posts: 4,480
iTrader: (0)

Nobody can guarantee that a chip or piggyback will be save. I chipped my 4 past ( new, all BMW ) cars and never had any issue. I don't track my cars. Now I have the PROcede and it seems to be a fantastic tune ( v1.47 ).

If you are worried, stay stock ( ment in a positive way ).

Cheers
Eugen
__________________
Not more than 500 chp for my daily driver. Well, ... .
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2007, 05:13 PM   #14
LOK11atXEDE
Enlisted Member
Australia
2

 
LOK11atXEDE's Avatar
 
Drives: Many -Daily- 600hp Ford6cyl T
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia's Gold Coast


Posts: 43
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Wouldn't this depend entirely on what the chip changed? Wouldn't a better question be something like "what are your experiences with running X % of power over stock"? And even then, "premature" death really comes down to how often that power is used. The toll on a car due to how it is driven should be the primary question, with the chip being secondary as far as conditions affecting lifespan of engine/powertrain.
That's actually a very good way to frame the question, and then include, - and what was the calibre of the engine design it was used on and was an appropriate maintainence regime used. I have Subaru and GM cars we chipped 14 years ago with 50% torque gain over standard still going strong today and others with the same gains have rebuilt engines and gearboxes.
Then there's EVO's that do competition events that are well maintained and still change turbos every 5th event and rebuild the engine every 2 years.
BMW Turbo engines, well, we'll have to wait and see. The engineering however is excellent.
__________________
Lachlan Riddel
Technical Director
www.xede.com.au

We make the best tuning tools!!!
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2007, 09:26 AM   #15
techlogik
Major
32

 
Drives: 07 335i Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FL


Posts: 1,339
iTrader: (1)

I also had a 2002 Audi S4 like an above poster. I ran a GIAC chip that would spike to 19psi/1.3-1.4bar on logs I did. Then it would taper to 1-1.1 bar.

They were known to eventually cook the K03 turbos by chipping, happened to many. I never had a problem, chipped mine for about 1 year nearly and it ran strong. But I was waiting for the turbos to go anyday.

The turbos in those cars were known to not be able to handle that load as we all found out mostly, and heat was an issue also contributing.

I always ran synthetic oil changing it every 5k.

Oh..and I also had a 2002 Jetta 1.8T, also chipped. No idea what the boost was, never logged it, but I believe they also had K03 turbo, it ran fine for 50k+ with a chip, mostly higway miles.

The only way to know will be long term higher boost levels with the N54 engine and wait and see what happens.

Last edited by techlogik; 07-09-2007 at 09:22 AM.
Appreciate 0
      07-07-2007, 09:48 AM   #16
BoostedBMW
Moderator
United_States
105

 
BoostedBMW's Avatar
 
Drives: TiAg E92 335
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC


Posts: 6,787
iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to BoostedBMW
I don't have much experience with a chipped car, but I did put a standalone AEM EMS in my turbo s2k where I was pushing 150whp/100wtq over stock, and with a conservative tune I had zero problems. Aside from annoying rattles here and there, mechanically everything held up like stock. The only thing that I needed was to upgrade the clutch since the stock one couldn't handle the increase in torque. The rest of the drivetrain handled the power fine and 10k miles later it was still running strong up until when I sold it a few months ago. The only problems that people would run into would be if they would launch the piss out of the car they would start grenading differentials, but people would also do this with a bone stock s2000 so I guess it really comes down to how badly you beat on your car.
__________________
-Michael.
Berlina Black S2000 CR is now in the garage

l 19" Rial Daytona Race l KW V2 l Eisenhaus Race Exhaust l
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:53 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST