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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > First HPDE Event what Tires??



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      04-03-2012, 11:05 AM   #1
Island Road
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First HPDE Event what Tires??

Well I started getting ready for some HPDE this coming summer and slowly prepping my car. I have been reading a lot of on the forums about what to do for the first track event and taking the advice of many not to go overboard with the mods and even run in a stock map maybe the first time. The only thing I have done to my car is actually install a Wavetrack 3.46 ration and have a square setup of 18x9.5 and Cobb.

I opted for the square setup for a natural feel and the LSD for obvious reasons on and off the track as for the Cobb it’s a great time and a ton of fun. As of right now I have V12 225/25/18 on the wheels that need to come off. I acquired a deal with the rims so bought the wheels as a package. I am looking to go 255/35/18 as to maximize the wheel while running -1.0 camber in the front with the pins knocked out.

The thing that I need some advice on is what tires to buy, I know this comes up a lot and I have searched all throughout but most of the threads are suggesting tires for driver who has already been on the track and looking to acquire the most grip. I want a tire that is going to teach me a bit while being stable but also good on the road. I plan on attending about 3 events this year and ideally don’t want to go into the 240range per tire I would like to stay below $200

What I have to choose from so far: I have been looking for used tires but only come across a few choices within my tire range that will work for Summer street / HPDE / AutoX

My Setup
2008 335i 6sp Sport
Wavetrac 3.46
Cobb
TR Motorsport TR1 18x9.5

Obvious choices – I would love to go with
Star Spec Z1 - $250+
Ventus R-S3 - $250+

What I am looking at -

Ventus V12 – Cheap around $200 each but heard they tend to chunk on the track. I currently have them now and the sidewall seems a bit soft somewhat squashy at times but they are so quite on the road and seem to grip rather well.

Direzza dz101- I found mixed reviews on these wheels, some say they are too soft, others that they are a great step up on performance from OEM non-rft and handle good for a few track events but they are weak in the rain. On the plus side I did find a square setup somewhat close for a great price rather close to New.

G-Force T/A KDW 2 – $200

Nitto Invo – $200

Is it worth to actually to up one step and spend the extra money or should I stay with the current 200 tires any suggestions for other tires are welcome.
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      04-03-2012, 11:19 AM   #2
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I've been using Hankook V12s on stock 189 wheels for DD/AX/track for a year. The tires have held up surprisingly well for me. Last weekend I was at the track in the intermediate run group and had no problem keeping up with the fastest guys.

Sure, you could spend a lot on upgraded tires, but as a beginner there's no need to. I'm still learning and getting faster on these tires every time out.
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      04-03-2012, 03:23 PM   #3
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The LSD is a very good starting point, it'll save you from a lot of near-future aggravation.

Both the StarSpecs and the RS3s will be more than fine for your track events. Now is a good time to decide sizes, as both the tires you listed as $250+ in 18s are available for less than $200 in 17s. Tires and brakes will be somewhere on your list of top track expenses, and trust me these add up very quickly.

GL!
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      04-03-2012, 04:46 PM   #4
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V12's are good, especially since you are just starting out. It's definitely tempting to just get sticky tires but I actually started out with all-seasons my first half of the year. They are a lot more sensitive and start squealing at every little mistake you make which can be a good thing when you are starting out and don't know what you are doing.
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      04-03-2012, 07:14 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
The LSD is a very good starting point, it'll save you from a lot of near-future aggravation.

Both the StarSpecs and the RS3s will be more than fine for your track events. Now is a good time to decide sizes, as both the tires you listed as $250+ in 18s are available for less than $200 in 17s. Tires and brakes will be somewhere on your list of top track expenses, and trust me these add up very quickly.

GL!
+1...especially tires AND brakes.
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      04-03-2012, 09:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acj75 View Post
I've been using Hankook V12s on stock 189 wheels for DD/AX/track for a year. The tires have held up surprisingly well for me. Last weekend I was at the track in the intermediate run group and had no problem keeping up with the fastest guys.

Sure, you could spend a lot on upgraded tires, but as a beginner there's no need to. I'm still learning and getting faster on these tires every time out.
This is great to know, i read some reviews about that tire great for street but not the same for track. Its right around my budget as well although i a still leaning on dz101 for the simple fact i can get them for cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM1 View Post
The LSD is a very good starting point, it'll save you from a lot of near-future aggravation.

Both the StarSpecs and the RS3s will be more than fine for your track events. Now is a good time to decide sizes, as both the tires you listed as $250+ in 18s are available for less than $200 in 17s. Tires and brakes will be somewhere on your list of top track expenses, and trust me these add up very quickly.

GL!
I know both of those tires will be more then fine, but i am not looking for a great tire right off the bat. I want to learn from my mistakes and find something thats in-between. As for 17 wheels well maybe that will come next season for now i am going to stick with my TR1 18x9.5 18lb. As for brakes my fronts need to be replaced so I am looking into alternatives now.

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Originally Posted by warpig666 View Post
V12's are good, especially since you are just starting out. It's definitely tempting to just get sticky tires but I actually started out with all-seasons my first half of the year. They are a lot more sensitive and start squealing at every little mistake you make which can be a good thing when you are starting out and don't know what you are doing.
I would keep the v12 i have now but they are 225 and def not enough grip for my daily sprinted driving at least for the rear so on with 255 square.

Overall i know that i don't need Z1 RS3 ect and i don't mind a step lower alternative so i can learn at the track. Track pads i am working on, going to 17's not going to happen this year i am sticking with 18's. As for other alternatives tires though more suggestions the better.

Does anybody have experience with the dz101 on the track / street or know of a cheap tire alternative?
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      04-04-2012, 06:29 AM   #7
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A buddy of mine has done several track days on the Hankook V12 with no chunking or odd wear at all. They've held up great so I wouldn't count them out.

Yes, the Star Spec and RS3 will definitely give you more grip and work better under harder conditions, but the Hankooks will teach you to be smoother and not push so hard as to induce so much understeer because they will get too hot and feel greasy. That's what used to happen with my Goodyear Asymmetric F1. They would work great unless I pushed them too hard so 15 minutes into a session I'd have to slow down and let them cool.

Also, remove the Cobb. The LAST thing you do for track days is add HP. Learn how to drive first and then add HP. Brakes are actually the MOST important performance part on your car. Yes, way above tires and especially above adding HP. If you can't stop........you're in BIG trouble.
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      04-04-2012, 10:49 AM   #8
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You're making a huge assumption in that you'll be able to "push" your car somehow at your very first HPDE.

I'm going to be very blunt with you.

You will not.

In my 10+ years of doing this stuff, I've only EVER come across a student on his very first HPDE to even remotely have been able to push his car close to its limits. And he had an E30 325e (okay, it had an eta block with i headers) with cheap Pep-boys specials ($50 each Fuzions) All-Season tires with 600 UTQG rating. But that's not the reason why he was able to push his "mighty" 325e near its limits. It was because he's been competing in Jr. Karts for years and have been karting even after his Jr. Karting career was over, and this was his first track event with a "car" but he's probably had just as many track events as I had done myself. Needless to say, a beginner he was not.

Outside of that one "outlier" (is that term still being used?) I have not come across anyone capable of pushing any modern BMW equipped with just about any tire under the sun fully to what the car and tire is capable of doing. And the dude with the karting experience in his 20+ year old car (I think at the time the car was the same age as him) riding on crappy all-season probably could have kept up with some intermediate level drivers in their E46 M3s on über summer tires like Michelin PS2s, had it not been Laguna Seca.

You are about 5-8 events too early to worry about what tires to use, in my not so humble opinion.
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      04-04-2012, 12:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
You're making a huge assumption in that you'll be able to "push" your car somehow at your very first HPDE.

I'm going to be very blunt with you. You will not.

You are about 5-8 events too early to worry about what tires to use, in my not so humble opinion.
AMEN!!! Just be humble and learn. Best way to be on your first 7-8 outings.

The only reason I can see for being this concerned about which tires to use is so you don't ruin your daily driving tires. And that would only matter if you knew you were going to be going to more track days after this one. We could also talk about the frequency of those track days.
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      04-05-2012, 09:45 AM   #10
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if you're running 9.5 up front, I'm assuming you're going with a 255 or 265 tire. In that case -1 camber isn't enough in my opinion.

Both tire choices are fine, the R-S3's are cheaper but then again, the Star Specs will probably last longer. If you don't have to worry about cold/wet weather, I'd go R-S3s.

+1 on brakes, make sure to do a full flush with some high temp fluids... aggressive pads wouldn't hurt neither.
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