[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

just talked to the service advisor, he said the clutch is destroyed. thats a very vague description, all he said was there was residue all over the bell housing. dosent make sense to me, i would have thought the clutch would have slipped in gear. waiting on word from bmw, but my guess is they are going to call it abuse.

Ask for pictures..

[brocklanders]

i will ask to see the parts, i went there to talk to the mechanic to see exactly what happened, and come to find out they havent even tore it apart yet. so basically they looked at the car and said they think the clutch is destroyed. i told the sa it is very hard to drive that car civilly 100% of the time so obviously they are going to find some premature wear, and if it were abuse i doubt it would fail without prior symptoms. so what he said on the phone this morning means nothing, how could they be waiting for a response from bmw when they dont even know what parts are worn or failed.

[techwhiz]

Definitely you want to see. I think theOP said the car had 10K miles?
If so and the clutch came apart they may have opened a case directly with BMWUSA because it is some type of warranty issue. It's not that easy to destroy a clutch. I have heard of them coming apart but never just mashing the pedal down.

I had an e36 M3 that saw plenty of abuse on the clutch but when I sold it, it still had the original at 160k miles.

Either OP didn't tell us the full story or the disk possibly had a defect.
In any case I hope it works out for the OP.

[brocklanders]

yeah i am the op, the thing is i dont think its the disk because when its in gear it drives normal. the problem is the clutch pedal, there is no pressure so in my opinion its hydraulic or the throw out bearing is getting stuck. i am really leaving nothing out and yes it has slightly over ten thousand miles, i have been driving manuals for twelve years and never had any problems in the past. this is my first 300hp car but i dont drive it any different it just gets there faster.

[brocklanders]

after a week the verdict is in, in 10k miles the clutch disk was destroyed. the flywheel side was fine, the other side was gone completely. the flywheel did have several smooth areas they told me were burn marks. my sa is trying to get bmw to warranty it out of the kindness of their hearts, i would be shocked if they covered any of it. does anyone know if i can call bmw personally?

[brocklanders]

bmw is going to pay 50%, not sure if i should be happy with that or fight to have them cover it.

[tofu-]

how did that happen in 10k miles?

[335iaz]

^ read the first post, he wasn't exactly nice to the clutch.

[brocklanders]

regardless no one i have talked to has seen anything like it. the clutch pad was ripped off of one side while the other side had no evidence of abuse or even premature wear. i doubt i am any harder on my clutch then these guys who are running tunes close to 400hp. i dont do burn outs, but i am guilty of down shifting, i dont consider down shifting abnormal or abusive, we drive cars with more power then anyone needs for pubic commuting, every part should be able to handle it.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

bmw is going to pay 50%, not sure if i should be happy with that or fight to have them cover it.

So I would push back on BMW. If the statement from them is the clutch plate on the pressure plate side is destroyed and not on the flywheel plate side, then it sounds like to me something in the pressure plate, throwout bearing, or clutch actuation hardware failed. There is no way a one-time event of a hard acceleration from a rolling start would cause that much damage. Either the clutch has been really abused to show that much wear in only 10,000 miles (but both the flywheel and pressure plates sides of the clutch plate would show damage), or there is something wrong with the clutch actuation mechanism, which includes the master cylinder, slave cylinder and pressure plate. The flywheel would show damage if the engine were trying to power the transmission to the point the clutch disk was slipping on the flywheel plate, but if the clutch disk is not damaged on that side then how much abuse could there have been? It sounds like to me the clutch was never being fully released for the past 10,000 miles, which indicates the car came out of the factory with either faulty parts, or an improperly bled hydraulic system.

Also, if there was that much abuse on the clutch to destroy it in 10,000 miles, then the rest of the drivetrain would show abuse as well. Ask BMW to show you where the halfshafts show abuse, or a leaking rear trans seal, or a cracked guibo (driveshaft vibration dampener), or a noisey differential, etc. Is the car still on the original set of tires? If it is then there is no way the clutch was abused. If they try to say the rear tires are new then have them look at the date codes on the sidewalls. If the tires are originals the date codes will all be close in number.

Just my 2 cents.

[merchomini]

could be the spring behind your pedal, iv seen someones actual clutch pedal assembly like fall apart, they might have been bleeding there clutch line, or they started doing it after this happened to try and fix it.....there was actual parts from the clutch pedal assmebly on the floor at his feet.

[IancoleTX]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

So I would push back on BMW. If the statement from them is the clutch plate on the pressure plate side is destroyed and not on the flywheel plate side, then it sounds like to me something in the pressure plate, throwout bearing, or clutch actuation hardware failed. There is no way a one-time event of a hard acceleration from a rolling start would cause that much damage. Either the clutch has been really abused to show that much wear in only 10,000 miles (but both the flywheel and pressure plates sides of the clutch plate would show damage), or there is something wrong with the clutch actuation mechanism, which includes the master cylinder, slave cylinder and pressure plate. The flywheel would show damage if the engine were trying to power the transmission to the point the clutch disk was slipping on the flywheel plate, but if the clutch disk is not damaged on that side then how much abuse could there have been? It sounds like to me the clutch was never being fully released for the past 10,000 miles, which indicates the car came out of the factory with either faulty parts, or an improperly bled hydraulic system.

Also, if there was that much abuse on the clutch to destroy it in 10,000 miles, then the rest of the drivetrain would show abuse as well. Ask BMW to show you where the halfshafts show abuse, or a leaking rear trans seal, or a cracked guibo (driveshaft vibration dampener), or a noisey differential, etc. Is the car still on the original set of tires? If it is then there is no way the clutch was abused. If they try to say the rear tires are new then have them look at the date codes on the sidewalls. If the tires are originals the date codes will all be close in number.

Just my 2 cents.

This. Not a chance you should be paying for this.

[achien]

do you rev-match when you down-shift? if you don't, that means you are using your clutch-pad like a brake-pad. do this often enough and your clutch-pads will be destroyed.

Originally Posted by brocklanders

regardless no one i have talked to has seen anything like it. the clutch pad was ripped off of one side while the other side had no evidence of abuse or even premature wear. i doubt i am any harder on my clutch then these guys who are running tunes close to 400hp. i dont do burn outs, but i am guilty of down shifting, i dont consider down shifting abnormal or abusive, we drive cars with more power then anyone needs for pubic commuting, every part should be able to handle it.

[brocklanders]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

So I would push back on BMW. If the statement from them is the clutch plate on the pressure plate side is destroyed and not on the flywheel plate side, then it sounds like to me something in the pressure plate, throwout bearing, or clutch actuation hardware failed. There is no way a one-time event of a hard acceleration from a rolling start would cause that much damage. Either the clutch has been really abused to show that much wear in only 10,000 miles (but both the flywheel and pressure plates sides of the clutch plate would show damage), or there is something wrong with the clutch actuation mechanism, which includes the master cylinder, slave cylinder and pressure plate. The flywheel would show damage if the engine were trying to power the transmission to the point the clutch disk was slipping on the flywheel plate, but if the clutch disk is not damaged on that side then how much abuse could there have been? It sounds like to me the clutch was never being fully released for the past 10,000 miles, which indicates the car came out of the factory with either faulty parts, or an improperly bled hydraulic system.

Also, if there was that much abuse on the clutch to destroy it in 10,000 miles, then the rest of the drivetrain would show abuse as well. Ask BMW to show you where the halfshafts show abuse, or a leaking rear trans seal, or a cracked guibo (driveshaft vibration dampener), or a noisey differential, etc. Is the car still on the original set of tires? If it is then there is no way the clutch was abused. If they try to say the rear tires are new then have them look at the date codes on the sidewalls. If the tires are originals the date codes will all be close in number.

Just my 2 cents.

the mechanic even pointed out to me that the tires were still new, as in they didnt show abnormal wear. but now that you mention the clutch not being fully released, i did have a bms clutch stop. i took it out, and i didnt tell the service advisor or the mechanic about the aftermarket clutch stop, but im guessing that combined with hard down shifting is the culprit. there was no damage to the pressure plate that was brought to my attention, although i did not look at it.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

the mechanic even pointed out to me that the tires were still new, as in they didnt show abnormal wear. but now that you mention the clutch not being fully released, i did have a bms clutch stop. i took it out, and i didnt tell the service advisor or the mechanic about the aftermarket clutch stop, but im guessing that combined with hard down shifting is the culprit. there was no damage to the pressure plate that was brought to my attention, although i did not look at it.

You missed the point about the clutch stop.
I've never used one.
If adjusted incorrectly.........

[brocklanders]

Originally Posted by achien

do you rev-match when you down-shift? if you don't, that means you are using your clutch-pad like a brake-pad. do this often enough and your clutch-pads will be destroyed.

from the evidence ive seen and everyone ive talked to, i believe it was poor rev matching. not sure if im going to put the clutch stop back in or not but i am sure next time i see an is350 or a wrx on the highway i will not throw it in 3rd at 80mph.

[JuppiOne]

you may not want to announce to everyone here about the clutch stop... if you want to make sure BMW will pay for it, or even 50%

[ihsanshaik]

Go to a different dealer and get it done. My friend with his E46 M3 had a bad sub frame which was recalled but missed the date by a week. I told him go to my dealership and he went and they covered it (3,500) plus free enterprise car for one month of his choosing. Same thing happened to one of the guys on this forum with his leaky mirror.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by patrickch

you may not want to announce to everyone here about the clutch stop... if you want to make sure BMW will pay for it, or even 50%

A BMS clutch stop has nothing to do with this. If the clutch stop was an issue it would make for hard shifting as the clutch would not be fully disengaged allowing some engine power to be transmitted to the transmission while trying to shift gears. What I now don't understand is how there is no damage to either the pressure plate or flywheel plate and only to the clutch disk. But regardless. The OP could not have abused the clutch in 10,000 miles without other obvious driveline wear. Even slowing down the car with the clutch would take longer than 10,000 miles. BMW clutch disks last a long time.

[Blackhawk36]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

just talked to the service advisor, he said the clutch is destroyed. thats a very vague description, all he said was there was residue all over the bell housing. dosent make sense to me, i would have thought the clutch would have slipped in gear. waiting on word from bmw, but my guess is they are going to call it abuse.

Same thing happened to my first car. 1967 Mercury Couger with a 289 high performance and a 4 speed manual. I missed a shift from first to second and the clutch plate exploded. The bell housing was covered in clutch material fibers and the metal parts were intact. I expect there was plenty of asbestos in them then too. Another thing that happened at the same time was the bellcrank that changed direction of the clutch linkage bent and wedged against my steering column restricting my ability to steer. I bet BMW covers it. The engine has over rev protection. Over revving is what caused the clutch to explode. It shouldn't have happened. The reason your pedal may have stuck all the way down is that the pressure plate fingers could have bent from centripetal force from the overrev. Either way, I agree with the others that you shouldn't be paying for this but 50% is all you might be able to get. Maybe a letter from a lawyer is in order.