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      04-15-2012, 09:13 AM   #1
tinnsoldaten
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Meth and water configuration.

Hi guys

Im seriously thinking of getting me a water / meth system on my car.

But I have some BIG questions that I would like to ask in here.
With just water injection what benefits do one get other than cleaner valves/intake and more compression?
Is it not more sensible to have divided injection system? To pumps , one for just water and one for the meth (meth/water)?

I would like to look into this , since our car benefit from injecting to clean valves and intake. And I guess a small spray of water in a low psi range would do the trick.

And would a separate water only system harm the engine?
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      04-15-2012, 09:32 AM   #2
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Unless you're running some big power, there's no reason to have a separate meth and separate water only setup. Even then if you were running dual tanks, i think a mix would be safer. As far as I'm aware of the water cools the charge while the meth provides the additional octane.

Typically you see a 50/50 or 60/40 meth/water mix. Water of course being distilled. Normally that is the standard as far as meth/water injection goes. Worked fine in my STi, provided enough cooling and octane to get some decent AFR's.

Not in the mod list yet, but will be soon as Alaska is stuck with shitty 90 octane.
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Last edited by Wes335XI; 04-15-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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      04-15-2012, 10:32 AM   #3
sA x sKy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinnsoldaten View Post
Hi guys


I would like to look into this , since our car benefit from injecting to clean valves and intake.
It's been said that meth injection does not clean carbon deposits in the intake valves ;(
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      04-15-2012, 11:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sA x sKy View Post
It's been said that meth injection does not clean carbon deposits in the intake valves ;(
You sure about that?
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      04-15-2012, 11:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
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You sure about that?
Using Meth prevents a lot of carbon buildup.
However running meth wont do much, if anything to old carbon gunk.
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      04-15-2012, 04:03 PM   #6
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I mention this with water because I plan to get work done to my top end and later use the water at a low psi range to maintain the condition of the valves/intake.

So the seperate tank/pump setup is for the long run to preserve my engine at low cost (water) and use water meth mix for the higher psi range for performance.

This makes me curious to capabilities of kits out on the marked. Im aiming for the aquamist HSF-3 solution. Im sure I understand it so that injection can be in several stages based on one controller. So if that controller ran 2 pumps which had their own dedicated tank for my purpose.

Then next is , what nozzles should I use for my plan?

And while we are at it , anyone got some pics of their N54 intake/valves after longer water/meth use ?
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      04-15-2012, 04:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
Using Meth prevents a lot of carbon buildup.
However running meth wont do much, if anything to old carbon gunk.
Not really: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=47
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      04-15-2012, 05:55 PM   #8
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That doesnt prove anything.
Meth wasnt constently flowing, only during aggresive friving and we dont know how this guy drove.
It has been proven to help with carbon build up.
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      04-15-2012, 05:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
That doesnt prove anything.
Meth wasnt constently flowing, only during aggresive friving and we dont know how this guy drove.
It has been proven to help with carbon build up.
Right, so are you suggesting going WOT everywhere then to avoid carbon build up so that it sprays meth?
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      04-15-2012, 06:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
That doesnt prove anything.
Meth wasnt constently flowing, only during aggresive friving and we dont know how this guy drove.
It has been proven to help with carbon build up.
Well isn't meth only sprayed while boosting at a minimum psi? That is totally normal.
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      04-15-2012, 07:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 View Post
Right, so are you suggesting going WOT everywhere then to avoid carbon build up so that it sprays meth?
Of course not, but when driving aggresively with meth will result in less deposits than driving aggresively without meth.
Of course with direct injection carbon deposits are unavoidable.
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      04-16-2012, 12:27 PM   #12
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If you do decide to go with a water/meth kit, remember to mix it by WEIGHT and not by VOLUME.
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      04-16-2012, 12:57 PM   #13
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The meth is completely vaporized by the time it hits the intake valves. Unlikely to have any effect on keeping them clean.

Neil
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      04-16-2012, 01:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
The meth is completely vaporized by the time it hits the intake valves. Unlikely to have any effect on keeping them clean.

Neil
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      04-16-2012, 02:48 PM   #15
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So , my point about using split system is valid and make sense ?
I was thinking of using the WW to store water for cleaning/cooling/comp purpose.
And install the water/meth kit in the trunk.
If possible controller will be set up to run pump#1 (WW water) at low PSI range.
And as a stage 2 , controller will use pump#2 to spray from water/meth tank in trunk.
Alternatively, also a stage 3 can be used if it is necessary with bigger nozzles at max PSI.

Found movies and info regarding meth and cleaner valves , its not working at all.
But I have still to see cleaned valves/intakes after water/meth kit installed , if they stay clean.

Additives for cleaner valves/intakes exist , so maybe they could be added in WW for cleaning purpose.Just a thought.

And any input on what minimum PSI that is safe to start adding water , just water?
And what nozzle should I use?
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      04-16-2012, 02:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinnsoldaten View Post
So , my point about using split system is valid and make sense ?
I was thinking of using the WW to store water for cleaning/cooling/comp purpose.
And install the water/meth kit in the trunk.
If possible controller will be set up to run pump#1 (WW water) at low PSI range.
And as a stage 2 , controller will use pump#2 to spray from water/meth tank in trunk.
Alternatively, also a stage 3 can be used if it is necessary with bigger nozzles at max PSI.

Found movies and info regarding meth and cleaner valves , its not working at all.
But I have still to see cleaned valves/intakes after water/meth kit installed , if they stay clean.

Additives for cleaner valves/intakes exist , so maybe they could be added in WW for cleaning purpose.Just a thought.

And any input on what minimum PSI that is safe to start adding water , just water?
And what nozzle should I use?
You are making a lot more work for yourself with this dual system. If there is anything about methanol and water injection kits its that less is more and simplicity is key for reliability.

As far as spraying just water I wouldnt go more then M1 or M3 nozzle. I would spray sometime after 8 PSI.

I wouldnt get too excited about cleaning intake valves, it really doesnt work, but they probably might help over-time VS a car that never had meth/water.

If you want your valves clean just open the intake manifold every 30K and clean em.
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      04-16-2012, 05:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinnsoldaten View Post
With just water injection what benefits do one get other than cleaner valves/intake and more compression?
Water is much more effective at combustion chamber cooling than meth and water only AI is the better choice if your primary goal is to prevent pre ignition/detonation.
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