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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > CO2 to cool intercooler? Fine Tuned Speed Channel



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      07-15-2007, 04:11 PM   #1
TheAcAvenger
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CO2 to cool intercooler? Fine Tuned Speed Channel

I'm watching Fine Tuned on the Speed Channel, and the shop is going ot use CO2 to aid in cooling the IC for the S/Cd and intercooled 350Z. I've never heard of doing this. They said 30-70hp, and that just sounds ludicrous for cooled air. I usually give a lot of cred to stuff on the speed channel though, so does anyone have any ideas on the topic? A bottle of CO2 that resembles a bottle of nitrous feeding CO2 to the IC?
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      07-15-2007, 04:17 PM   #2
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You should get similar gains on the 335i.

Found this blurb - different system, but same concept and same amount of power:
Quote:
Ford's patented SuperCooler technology cleverly provides a special burst of power for the SVT Lightning concept. Traditional intercoolers dissipate heat from the supercharged air by circulating coolant through a front-mounted, air-cooled radiator. With the SuperCooler system, the vehicle's air conditioning system is used to chill a small storage tank of coolant to about 30 degrees Fahrenheit.

On demand, the SuperCooler system switches the intercooler flow from its normal circulation and dumps the chilled coolant into the engine's intercooler. In turn, the intercooler dissipates up to 20 percent more heat from the charge air - resulting in a denser air charge.

A green light on the instrument panel indicates the system's readiness. SuperCooler is activated automatically when the driver depresses the accelerator to a wide-open-throttle position.

This technology plays directly into the hands of the enthusiast, Coletti says. The SuperCooler provides the edge for the driver, and it is done simply by taking advantage of the hardware that already exists in the vehicle.

As a result of this cool technology, the SVT Lighting concept can give its driver as much as 50 transient horsepower for short bursts of 30-45 seconds and regenerate within 2 minutes under normal driving conditions. While its effect is similar to that of an aftermarket nitrous oxide system, the SuperCooler is completely self-contained, environmentally friendly and regenerative.
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      07-15-2007, 04:21 PM   #3
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I just turned the show on, looks like i'm not the only one on here while watching TV.

70hp is VERY optimistic, more like unrealistic if you ask me. Its a pretty common thing though, cry02 kits have been around for a while. Some people say they are good, others are skeptical because the Co2 can be sprayed into the intake tract. It works on the same principle as nitrous intercooler sprayers, which have shown gains, but some people say that is because the nitrous is making its way into the intake. I've never used it, but a friend of mine with a turbo s2k gained 25whp while spraying. BTW, I didn't see the beginning of the show, but I hope they built the bottom end on that Z since they like to throw rods when they are boosted.
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      07-15-2007, 04:35 PM   #4
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I would definitely go for a 350Z as a second car to mod and play with, especially if some tv show wants to do it for me for free.

Regardless, nice find zen. I wonder what the downsides to this are if its merely air to the IC. You'd think it'd bne a lot more well known popular.

Haha, and yes, Boosted you're definitely not the only one being completely unproductive at the moment.
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      07-15-2007, 05:28 PM   #5
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Found an interesting read here:

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ab_eng...231972,00.html

looks like way more effort than its worth, unless you do a lot of drag racing. low price though
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      07-15-2007, 05:59 PM   #6
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Chilling the IC will have good results if your running an undersized or heatsoaked IC but nowhere near 30-70hp...

Also Sometimes when cars gain good HP From an IC chiller it is because some of the CO2 is being sucked into the intake and acting like Nitrous.
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      07-15-2007, 06:07 PM   #7
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      07-15-2007, 06:21 PM   #8
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We all seem to be watching the same TV program, lol. Great stuff. OK, who is going to be the first out with a CO2 feeder?
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      07-15-2007, 06:34 PM   #9
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wonder how long that would last, i meen even if you had a scuba tank in your car... to get the air cold enough you would have to be releasing a lot of co2 quickly, so its going to run out really fast

but besides that you can get near freezing temps



if your going to be doing this it would probably be better going for a liquid gas gas type setup or something, then youd actually get freezing temps lol
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      07-15-2007, 07:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianTSi View Post
Chilling the IC will have good results if your running an undersized or heatsoaked IC but nowhere near 30-70hp...

Also Sometimes when cars gain good HP From an IC chiller it is because some of the CO2 is being sucked into the intake and acting like Nitrous.
Its sprayed before the run and not during the run. a single five second spray of the c02 will chill out the I.C. I have read articles where on 5 second spray was done then 5 consecative dyno pulls with no sprays inbetween. Each pull
the dyno dropped by 10 hp. A single fresh spray will give you 10% more wheel hp.

So 25 to 30 whp on a hot day is doable on the 335I

a ten pound tank will give you about 150 seconds of spray time so about 30 5 second shots.....Co2 is cheap ......its a good mod
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      07-15-2007, 07:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiemonster View Post
Its sprayed before the run and not during the run. a single five second spray of the c02 will chill out the I.C. I have read articles where on 5 second spray was done then 5 consecative dyno pulls with no sprays inbetween. Each pull
the dyno dropped by 10 hp. A single fresh spray will give you 10% more wheel hp.

So 25 to 30 whp on a hot day is doable on the 335I

a ten pound tank will give you about 150 seconds of spray time so about 30 5 second shots.....Co2 is cheap ......its a good mod
where did you get those numbers from?
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      07-15-2007, 07:59 PM   #12
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i guess i'm not the only lonely guy watching this show today.
i'm glad it's nothing like unique whips. god i hate that show.
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      07-15-2007, 08:04 PM   #13
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hahahaha, how many of us watched this show today. Good grief. And come on mach, I like unique whips a whole lot more than pimp my ride. Someone's always getting fired on that show.
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      07-15-2007, 08:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiemonster View Post
Its sprayed before the run and not during the run. a single five second spray of the c02 will chill out the I.C. I have read articles where on 5 second spray was done then 5 consecative dyno pulls with no sprays inbetween. Each pull
the dyno dropped by 10 hp. A single fresh spray will give you 10% more wheel hp.

So 25 to 30 whp on a hot day is doable on the 335I

a ten pound tank will give you about 150 seconds of spray time so about 30 5 second shots.....Co2 is cheap ......its a good mod
woops i just looked at that article and it IS liquid co2, which is NOT cheap
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      07-15-2007, 08:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 533ogetnom View Post
woops i just looked at that article and it IS liquid co2, which is NOT cheap
Where do you even go to get liquid CO2? You could get gas from a paintball shop, but I cant think of any local places that have liquid CO2 for sale.
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      07-15-2007, 09:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger View Post
Where do you even go to get liquid CO2? You could get gas from a paintball shop, but I cant think of any local places that have liquid CO2 for sale.

What you get at a paint ball shop is liquid CO2. Any welding fill up place will also have it at a cheaper price. you pay $3 dollars for 10 oz at a paint ball shop and only $10.00 for 10lbs at a welding fill up station.

Its all in the labor not the gas price.

Its liquid C02 at paint ball shops....trust me.

CO2 is cheap at about 15 to 20 % the cost of Nitrous
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      07-15-2007, 09:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 533ogetnom View Post
where did you get those numbers from?

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...est/index.html

Sure its on a car with alot of HP but the principle is the same.

also 2004 august edition of Eurotuner (u.s.a edition) tested a turbo golf 1.8t
and it gained 20whp.

It has is problems....the denser air can make you run lean. If your line is to long the co2 in the line gets warm. . The line can freeze close to the bottle. A pressure line will work but can be a pain. No quick fixes boys!
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      07-15-2007, 09:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiemonster View Post
What you get at a paint ball shop is liquid CO2. Any welding fill up place will also have it at a cheaper price. you pay $3 dollars for 10 oz at a paint ball shop and only $10.00 for 10lbs at a welding fill up station.

Its all in the labor not the gas price.

Its liquid C02 at paint ball shops....trust me.

CO2 is cheap at about 15 to 20 % the cost of Nitrous
its not liquid co2, you get some liquid, but its not a liquid fill
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      07-15-2007, 09:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiemonster View Post
[url]It has is problems....the denser air can make you run lean. If your line is to long the co2 in the line gets warm. . The line can freeze close to the bottle. A pressure line will work but can be a pain. No quick fixes boys!
Luckily there is a few O2 sensors installed on the exhausts, which in conjuction with he ECU (and/or piggy) won't let U run lean, will they? At least they trigger limp mode before U damage the engine...
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      07-15-2007, 10:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiemonster View Post
It has is problems....the denser air can make you run lean. If your line is to long the co2 in the line gets warm. . The line can freeze close to the bottle. A pressure line will work but can be a pain. No quick fixes boys!
LMFAO i missed this the first time around

the denser air will make you run lean? serisouly?


good thing the amount of fuel injected is determined by the map sensor and a thermometer... seriously, im not bullshitting you
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      07-16-2007, 12:35 AM   #21
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CO2 spray kits are available for just about any car running IC. Don't need a big ass FMIC for it to be effective. Same idea as why a good Dyno shop runs huge ass fans during and sprays your ICs before each pull. However, this is primarily for dedicated drag purposes.

Frankly, a water/alky injection system would be a more useful every day solution than a CO2 spray (and cheaper in the long run). I had acquimist(sp?) system on my TT Spyder VR4 and it allowed me to safely run additional 2-3psi and that's just with the basic spray kit. Oh yah, can we say steam cleaned engine?
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      07-16-2007, 02:12 AM   #22
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I had the CryO2 on a previous car. Itworks if you spray down the IC before the run. You do NOT want it to spray during the run, or get into the intake. CO2 will seize an engine, it is not like NO2.

And you can get get CO2 at any welding supply shop. They use C02 for some of their equipment. It is much cheaper than NO2 ($1/lb. vs. $4/lb.) hence why it makes a lot more sense as an IC sprayer than N02. Similar effects but much cheaper.
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