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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Water Pump failure. Any experience? Cost?



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      04-29-2012, 09:42 PM   #1
lux.sh
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Water Pump failure. Any experience? Cost?

My water pump died. I think its the water pump.

Story:
1. Driving down I-5 highway. Engine temperature light comes on. Yellow. 10 seconds later, it turns Red. Limp Mode.
2. I turn back and go to near-by BMW dealership. They topped off the coolant. They said it was very low.
3. Got back on the highway, engeine temperature light comes on. Yellow. Then Red. Limp mode.
4. Had to drive couple miles and parked. Cooled down, start the engine. Same thing happens. I shut off.
5. An hour later, I try to start the car, and battery was dead.


According to some research I've done, it seems like its the electric water pump failure. My questions are,

1. Did I damage anything else? Which components can be potentially damaged due to failed water pump?
2. How large is my repair bill going to be?

I already spent $600 towing the damn car back home and to the dealership.
If I'm looking at $1000+ repair bill, I'm selling this car.
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      04-29-2012, 10:07 PM   #2
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Pretty sure you're looking at over a $1000. Considering you won't be able to sell the car without fixing the water pump for anything remotely close to it's value in good running condition, not sure why just that would make you sell the car unless you've had numerous other expensive problems already. Water pumps need to be replaced on all cars eventually.
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      04-29-2012, 10:25 PM   #3
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How did you spend 600 on a tow? Weren't you just near a dealer?
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      04-29-2012, 10:37 PM   #4
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I just did a thermostat and water pump on my 335I. it cost me 850 CAD For just the parts and my friend did the work for 150
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      04-29-2012, 10:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinedbimmer View Post
Pretty sure you're looking at over a $1000. Considering you won't be able to sell the car without fixing the water pump for anything remotely close to it's value in good running condition, not sure why just that would make you sell the car unless you've had numerous other expensive problems already. Water pumps need to be replaced on all cars eventually.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant selling the car after the fix. No way I'll be able to sell the car when it doesn't even start. You sure about that $1000 figure?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RupertPupkin View Post
How did you spend 600 on a tow? Weren't you just near a dealer?
At the time, I was about 100 miles away from home and had to tow it down all the way. Which costed $530. Another $100 tomorrow when I tow my car in to the dealership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoE93 View Post
I just did a thermostat and water pump on my 335I. it cost me 850 CAD For just the parts and my friend did the work for 150
If your friend did it for $150, I assume dealership will charge 5 times as much..
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      04-29-2012, 10:59 PM   #6
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Damn man that sucks. Good luck. Should DIY some dude was selling a water pump on here the other day for 250
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      04-29-2012, 11:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh View Post
If your friend did it for $150, I assume dealership will charge 5 times as much..
Well up here my dealer charges 130 an hour for labour. My buddy has his own shop so I go to him. He's worked on all my cars so I trust him
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      04-30-2012, 07:29 AM   #8
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If you look on Tischer, the parts are $100 for the thermostat and $400 for the pump. This is their markup over wholesale, which keeps prices lower than most other shops, so if you pay "retail" to your dealer, it's going to be higher, plus $95/hr in labor.

There's a couple DIY writeups on doing it yourself if you're mechanically inclined. I'm probably doing mine in a month or so, just to be proactive.
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      04-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #9
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I had the same thing happen on my car with the water pump. Yellow temp then a few seconds later red and limp mode. It ended up being the water pump. I asked the dealership how much it would of been if I wasn't under warranty and they said about $1000-$1250 depending if nothing else is wrong. Lucky I was under warranty.

Tischer seems to have the cheapest parts if your going to do this yourself or get the parts and have someone do it.

Good luck.
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      05-01-2012, 10:13 AM   #10
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How many miles do you have in the car? I'm pushing 60k and was thinking of getting it done to be preventive also. I would like to wait because of the cost but I hear some go out at 60k and some last to 120k. Something that varied I just need to get done I don't strand my wife and kids.

I've read a DIY on replacing it, it is a little tricky to access and remove. You have to remove the stabilizer bar or at least one side of it. It might be worth the $300 in labor to save me 4 hrs or more of jacking with it. It's right next to the thermostat so if I were you I would replace that again unless it's been a few thousand miles but if your gonna sell might not be worth it.
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      05-01-2012, 12:01 PM   #11
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Tischer's special section has a pump/tstat replacement kit for $475 shipped.
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      05-01-2012, 12:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
Tischer's special section has a pump/tstat replacement kit for $475 shipped.
lol man these posts freak me out... I have 90k miles on my 330i. I wonder If I should start looking for a new water pump and thermosthat.
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      05-01-2012, 01:33 PM   #13
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Yup, waterpump and thermostat failure ... I pretty much had the same scenario on the highway last year..

1200 CAD for parts and installation. Went out at 99k km.
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      05-01-2012, 02:26 PM   #14
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Send a message via AIM to Evan@Tischer
These have become pretty popular - so we built some kits to help ease the pain..

Waterpump/t-stat Kit



Valve Cover Gasket Kit



Both kits on special here!
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      05-01-2012, 02:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf330xi View Post
Yup, waterpump and thermostat failure ... I pretty much had the same scenario on the highway last year..

1200 CAD for parts and installation. Went out at 99k km.
wow 99k km that was too quick in my opinion. I wonder what factor determine the lapse of time between the replacements...
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      05-01-2012, 03:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRomeo View Post
wow 99k km that was too quick in my opinion. I wonder what factor determine the lapse of time between the replacements...
My original water pump when out at 5000mi. The second went out at 175,000 mi. The second one had a different part number. There have been more than one revision to these. Also, I'm having a different issue with the water pump. Mine will go into low power mode if I push the car hard. I read a service bulletin about it and it said it's one of three issues: Insufficient ground, insufficient voltage, or faulty water pump. It's a new water pump and the freeze frame info says 14V when the error occurred. So I'm guessing it's insufficient ground due to the wires getting old from heat cycling and building resistance. It might be what's causing the water pump to fail. Check for codes before replacing. Also check this SB: SIB120405. It outlines the steps to check the wiring for proper voltage and resistance.
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      05-01-2012, 03:34 PM   #17
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Crap... I think I have the wrong SIB #
Edit: nope it's right here's the whole thing:
SI B12 04 05
Engine Electrical Systems October 2008
Technical Service
This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B12 04 05 July 2007.

[NEW] designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
Check Engine Lamp Illuminated and/or Vehicle Overheats MODEL
[NEW] E83 (X3) with N52K engine
[NEW] E85 and E86 (Z4) with N52 engine

[NEW] E70 (X5) with N52K engine

[NEW] E90, E91, E92 and E93 (3 Series) with N51, N52 and N52K engines

[NEW] E60 and E61 (5 Series) with N52 and N52K engine

[NEW] All models above produced up to December 31st, 2006

SITUATION
The customer complains that the Check Engine lamp is illuminated and/or that the vehicle overheated. One or more of the following fault codes is stored in the DME:
FC 2E81 Electric coolant pump, speed deviation, speed outside the tolerance

FC 2E82 Electric coolant pump cutoff, over-current

FC 2E83 Electric coolant pump, power-reduced operation, dry run

FC 2E84 Electric coolant pump, communication

FC 2E85 Electric coolant pump, communication, no voltage at emergency operation input of pump

CAUSE
One of the following can be the cause:
- Insufficient power supply
- Insufficient grounding
- BSD signal not present
- Defective electric coolant water pump
- Electric coolant pump water pump processor disturbance
PROCEDURE A
This procedure only applies to vehicles produced after September 1, 2005. Both faults must be stored; if any other combination of the faults is stored, refer to procedure B. - FC 2E81 Electric coolant pump, speed deviation, speed outside the tolerance
- FC 2E85 Electric coolant pump, communication, no voltage at emergency operation input of pump
1. Remove both battery cables from the battery for 15 minutes .
2. After reconnecting the battery cables, clear the vehicle fault memory and ensure that the electric coolant pump operates using the bleeding procedure, described at the end of this bulletin.
PROCEDURE B
This procedure applies to all vehicles with any combination of faults listed below.
FC 2E81 Electric coolant pump, speed deviation, speed outside the tolerance

FC 2E82 Electric coolant pump cutoff, over-current

FC 2E83 Electric coolant pump, power-reduced operation, dry run

FC 2E84 Electric coolant pump, communication

FC 2E85 Electric coolant pump, communication, no voltage at emergency operation input of pump

NOTE: All measurements should be performed with the battery charger connected to the vehicle. 1. Measure the following at connector X6035 on the electric coolant water pump: - E90 and E91 - Pin 1 (fuse F09) and Pin 4 ground (X6455) = 12 volts
- E60 and E61 - Pin 1 (fuse F23 and Pin 4 ground (X6455) = 12 volts
- Pin 2 (fuse F02) and Pin 4 ground (X6455) = 12 volts
- Pin 3 BSD signal (DME Pin 26) and Pin 4 ground (X6455) = 7.5 - 8.5 volts - If any of the above measurements are incorrect, continue troubleshooting using the DIS Plus or GT1 to determine the source of the problem.
- If all of the above measurements are correct, proceed to step 2.


2. Replace the electric coolant water pump (PN 11 51 7 546 994) in accordance with Repair Instruction RA 11 51 000.
3. After performing any service work requiring draining of the coolant, the system must be bled to ensure that there are no air pockets present. The system can be bled using the DISplus/GT-1 or by following a special procedure. To bleed the system, follow the procedure described at the end of this bulletin.

BLEEDING (VENTING) THE COOLING SYSTEM

NOTE: BMW recommends filling the cooling system for protection against freezing down to -34 degrees F (-37 degrees C) ; this is an antifreeze ratio of 50% antifreeze and 50% water. In severely cold areas, the antifreeze can be increased to 60%, which provides freezing protection down to -62 degrees F (-52 degrees C) . Do not exceed a 60% ratio of antifreeze.
The specified antifreeze ratio is important, since an insufficient amount would impair antifreezing and corrosion-inhibiting protection. An excessive amount would not improve freezing protection, but would instead reduce freezing protection. At all times, the antifreeze and water should be premixed before pouring into the engine. If premixing is not performed, damage will occur to the water pump assembly.

NOTE: Always connect a battery charger while performing the bleeding process. 1. Fill the system with coolant via the expansion tank (AGB). Top up the coolant level to the lower edge of the expansion tank.
2. Close the expansion tank.
3. Switch on the ignition.
4. Set heating to the maximum (temperature); switch on the blower (lowest stage).
5. Press the accelerator pedal module to the floor for at least 10 seconds . The engine must NOT be started.
6. Bleeding via EWP takes approximately 12 minutes . Then check the coolant level in the expansion tank; top up to the MAX marking if necessary.
7. Check the cooling circuit and drain the plugs for leaks.
8. If the procedure needs to be repeated several times, allow the DME to completely de-energize (remove the ignition key for approx. 3 minutes ) and then repeat the procedure, starting from item 3.


Read more: scanned a 2006 525xi and codes 2ef5,2e81,2a82,2e82 present have - JustAnswer http://www.justanswer.com/bmw/2ds7s-...#ixzz1bSPt36Zs
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Last edited by e90pilot; 05-01-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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      05-01-2012, 05:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90pilot View Post
My original water pump when out at 5000mi. The second went out at 175,000 mi. The second one had a different part number. There have been more than one revision to these. Also, I'm having a different issue with the water pump. Mine will go into low power mode if I push the car hard. I read a service bulletin about it and it said it's one of three issues: Insufficient ground, insufficient voltage, or faulty water pump. It's a new water pump and the freeze frame info says 14V when the error occurred. So I'm guessing it's insufficient ground due to the wires getting old from heat cycling and building resistance. It might be what's causing the water pump to fail. Check for codes before replacing. Also check this SB: SIB120405. It outlines the steps to check the wiring for proper voltage and resistance.
Thanks for the info. Its very interesting. Maybe its also due to extreme weather conditions who knows lol... All I know is that whenever this happens to me, I am not going to take it to a dealership, rather to straight to my garage, buy the parts and DIY. Well.. my friend the BMW tech will be there to help me and pay a fraction for for labor I hope...
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      05-01-2012, 06:39 PM   #19
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Just learned something else. A leak in the system may cause air to get into the pump. Coolant is used to lubricate the pump if air will damage to pump.
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      05-01-2012, 08:36 PM   #20
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UPDATE: Got the car back from the Dealership.

Well, it will go back to the dealership tomorrow. GODDAMN IT.
BMW dealerships tend to not get it right at once when it comes to complicated problems.


1. Got the car back. They said the coolant was low. Also, the battery was dead, and I mean like completely expired, which I expected. They checked the water pump and for leaks, and found water pump working completely fine and everything was good. Paid $450 for the check-ups and battery replacement. At this point, I'm out $1075.00 for this problem.

2. As I start up the car in the dealership, I notice the fan running REAL loud. I said to myself, "Oh please don't do this". Well, I drove off anyway.

3. Extremely happy to have my car back, I put my car in manual mode. Noticed it won't rev-up high, it just upshifts by itself. Uh-oh, this is bad. Thought it might be software reset issue, just drove off anyway.

4. Few minutes later.................................... SAME SHIT. Orange temperature warning light, followed by Red light. Limp mode again.

5. Called the dealership (at this time, I was trying to calm the F down), but they said service department closed 10 minutes ago.



So here is the strange part.

One. "Coolant was low, so it was topped off".
-This is strange, because 2 days ago when it first happened, I topped off the coolant at the other dealership. (As mentioned in my very first post) But these guys said coolant was low again?? Something leaking here?

Two. The loud fan when I first got the car back.
-It was very very loud. Trust me, I'm a bit more mechanically inclined than an average person, and that was not just fan running a bit more during the idle due to the heat. Keep in mind, I had this problem before (This was before 50k miles under warranty, now I have 80k miles). My engine was over-heating, and had to visit the dealership 3 times for the same problem. At the end, they said it was faulty fan and it was covered under warranty.


So............ What the hell is going on?
Where did the damn coolant go just after less than 10 miles of driving? Thermostat failure? Fan failure?
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      05-01-2012, 10:05 PM   #21
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Ok to answer number one. It's common after high water temps to get some air in the system. You'll top off the coolant, drive around a bit and it will be low again because the pump will purge the air eventually.

Number two is also common on this car. It's part of a fail safe mode. My car did the same thing when the pump failed even though it was still cold. The computer will command the fan to max rpm and will limit max engine power in effort to give you as much time a possible to stop the car at a safe location.
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      05-02-2012, 10:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoRomeo View Post
lol man these posts freak me out... I have 90k miles on my 330i. I wonder If I should start looking for a new water pump and thermosthat.
Im in the same boat you are. Planning a 600 mile trip and another at the end of the month.

Anyway to find out if the pump has been replaced before?
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