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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wheels and Tires Forum Sponsored by The Tire Rack > Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus



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      05-15-2012, 06:29 PM   #1
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Question Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (0) Continental DWS (1)

***EDIT***

ENDED UP GETTING CONTINENTAL DWS INSTEAD

So, I went into my local Discount Tire this morning as they were giving me the Michelins for $920 (after tax, installed). I ended up letting them put the tires on, but when the car came out, it looked like a crossover on sport suspension.

I said ok, lemme give it a try. My first impression behind the wheel was the night and day difference between the heavy, precise steering feel with using the rft's (that I like), and the looser, spongy steering feel on the Michelins (which I initially don't like, but still have not made up my mind about). I said okay again. I then did some driving on some backroads, across some train crossings, and coarse asphalt. I must admit that the car is a lot more comfortable to drive. There was no more harsh jarring on road holes and the wheel noise is virtually zero at all speeds. I did notice however that all my tire pressures were showing low as much as I tried to reset it. Was ditching the runflats a good idea?? I sat and thought about it for a bit...

When I got back home, I could not help but watch the suv-looking sidewalls which I was going to live with for the next couple years. I called up Discount Tire and asked them to weigh in. The guy at the store that I dealt with were completely unhelpful at this point since my questions post-purchase didn't seem to matter to him at all. He also told me that there was absolutely nothing they had as an alternative, and taking off the tires and exchanging (next week when they get more stock) would set me back additional labor and restocking fees. I didn't understand initially, since the company prides itself on its 30-day exchange policy. Even the hold recording on their phones boasts about it. I asked him about the advertisements, but there was a lot of reluctance on his end to pursue anything further.

Fast forward this evening, I decided to call another branch close to me and they told me to bring it in and have a chat. Their alternative was the Conti DWS, which they said they would be able to put on at no cost if I wasn't happy with the Michelins. They did indicate that they would prefer that I decide on it by end of day (not sure what's with the disregard to their 30-day satisfaction guarantee again). After reading many reviews about both tires, there was nothing to lose at this point. I then told them to put on the Contis. During this time, an M3 buddy of mine rang me up and reminded me that to reset the TPMS fully, the end button on the stalk need to be depressed for a full 5 seconds until the "resetting" indicator comes up. I was doing the complete opposite earlier in the day.

After the install, did the same set of loops and even though there is no road noise difference between both brands, the Contis seemed more sure footed and less spongy. It may also be due to the extra 2-3 PSI's I told them to put in the tire, but time will tell.

So, at the end of the day I suggest that if you like the stiffer, precise feel that you get when you first drove your car - go with some good run flats (ike the PS2's). I'm sure the Michelins are also great tires, but it didn't float my boat for the 6 hours I had them on. I'm yet to try these tires in the wet and can give updates if anyone's interested. My initial view is that the Contis are an excellent alternative if you're looking for a set of tires with good tread life. I don't like that the feel and heaviness is a bit gone, but in my wife's book I'm sure it's a plus.

Sorry I didn't get pics of either for a visual comparison.



------
ORIGINAL POST:

Looking for a good set of long lasting tires and came across these Michelins.

I'm getting them locally for $930 installed after the $70 rebate. I'm in Austin, so summer is pretty much standard, unless you guys think the all-seasons are completely unnecessary. I like having that extra peace of mind, and it's warrantied for 45k miles.

Is this a good set to look into, or should I just do the tried and true (but apparently soft) summer Conti DW's?
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      05-16-2012, 08:18 AM   #2
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While all-season tires are not needed if you're not driving in snow or freezing temps, they do tend to have longer wear and often are smoother and quieter riding.
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      05-16-2012, 09:27 AM   #3
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While all-season tires are not needed if you're not driving in snow or freezing temps, they do tend to have longer wear and often are smoother and quieter riding.
Thanks Gary. Appreciate the response.
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      05-16-2012, 09:52 PM   #4
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Seri335, just curious as to why you didn't go for the Potenza RE970AS or Conti dwS?
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      05-16-2012, 10:16 PM   #5
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Seri335, just curious as to why you didn't go for the Potenza RE970AS or Conti dwS?
Well still pondering the A/S option at the moment. The Michelins have great reviews everywhere, they have their 45k mileage warranty plus the $70 rebate which brings the price down a bit. I don't intend on taking the repair/replacement certificates since the roads in TX are pretty decent.

I know the Contis are good, but I've read that the (comparably) softer sidewalls take away some of the road feel. The Potenzas - I've had them on my Subaru (RE960) and now the 335 (RFT). Although they're both summers, I've developed a strong aversion to Bridgestones from those experiences.

My stock tires still have decent tread on them but they're just too damn noisy.
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      05-17-2012, 10:59 AM   #6
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My brother has the Sport A/S Plus' on his '08 G35x. They're definitely very nice tires, but they're pricey and a bit louder than I would have imagined. His are down to about 3/32 and have worn very even since new.

I have DWS' on the E90 and would not recommend them given the quality control issues, etc. that I have gone through with them.

As mentioned though, the RE970AS would be a good bet if you want a "sportier" all season tire. I'd also look at the Kumho Ecsta 4X given it's price and glowing reviews.
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      05-17-2012, 01:04 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SERI335 View Post
Well still pondering the A/S option at the moment. The Michelins have great reviews everywhere, they have their 45k mileage warranty plus the $70 rebate which brings the price down a bit. I don't intend on taking the repair/replacement certificates since the roads in TX are pretty decent.
Note if you have staggered sizes (sport package) Michelin cuts that tire warranty in half, because you can't rotate the tires. So only 22.5K miles tread warranty on staggered sizes.

Having said that, I have them and like them a lot. I have about 26K on my rears now, and expect to get about 30K before they need replacing.

Fronts probably would have gone 35-40K, but they had a problem throwing off small chunks of tread uniformly around the tires. Michelin just replaced them with a 30% credit against the new ones, acknowledging that they had a mold problem in the factory prior to 2011 with that size, and many others saw the issue as well. They say any tires dated 2011 or later will be fine.

Other than the chunking, I like them a lot -- much quieter than the OEM bricks, and the car feels like it actually has a suspension now! Unless you track your car, I bet you won't notice much difference in the handling -- just remember to up your pressures because the sidewalls are softer than RFT's -- I run 38 all around on mine with the sport package and they ride and handle sweet.

Figure out what you are going to do re spare -- I got a kit from Bavarian Auto, doesn't really take that much space in the trunk. 4 tires and the spare kit will still cost less than 4 new RFT's, and last nearly twice as long.

Good luck with them!
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      05-17-2012, 01:24 PM   #8
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The Pilot A/S is a great tire. It's been out for a while, so it's a proven product. There are a lot of people who buy these over the PS2 due to the higher wear ratings. If you have time, go to tirerack and look at the customer reviews for these tires--the number of repeat buyers is really impressive.

I would have bought these if they were available in Europe. As all seasons are not really available out here, I ended up with the Michelin Primacy HP (W-rated) which, after 8K miles, I'm pretty happy with:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=Primacy+HP
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      05-17-2012, 07:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromisdesigns View Post
Note if you have staggered sizes (sport package) Michelin cuts that tire warranty in half, because you can't rotate the tires. So only 22.5K miles tread warranty on staggered sizes.

Having said that, I have them and like them a lot. I have about 26K on my rears now, and expect to get about 30K before they need replacing.

Fronts probably would have gone 35-40K, but they had a problem throwing off small chunks of tread uniformly around the tires. Michelin just replaced them with a 30% credit against the new ones, acknowledging that they had a mold problem in the factory prior to 2011 with that size, and many others saw the issue as well. They say any tires dated 2011 or later will be fine.

Other than the chunking, I like them a lot -- much quieter than the OEM bricks, and the car feels like it actually has a suspension now! Unless you track your car, I bet you won't notice much difference in the handling -- just remember to up your pressures because the sidewalls are softer than RFT's -- I run 38 all around on mine with the sport package and they ride and handle sweet.

Figure out what you are going to do re spare -- I got a kit from Bavarian Auto, doesn't really take that much space in the trunk. 4 tires and the spare kit will still cost less than 4 new RFT's, and last nearly twice as long.

Good luck with them!
Thanks for the advice. None of the people who I consulted with mentioned the reduction in warranty, so I'll keep that in mind. The fact that the tires can't be rotated sucks though. I guess that's the downfall of having sport...
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      05-17-2012, 07:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
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The Pilot A/S is a great tire. It's been out for a while, so it's a proven product. There are a lot of people who buy these over the PS2 due to the higher wear ratings. If you have time, go to tirerack and look at the customer reviews for these tires--the number of repeat buyers is really impressive.

I would have bought these if they were available in Europe. As all seasons are not really available out here, I ended up with the Michelin Primacy HP (W-rated) which, after 8K miles, I'm pretty happy with:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=Primacy+HP
Thanks for the advice. I think I'll end up going with the A/S, but unfortunately the Primacy's don't come in the sizes for the 18" staggered setup. On that note though, a summer touring tire is probably ideal for most of my driving, especially considering our more than favourable road conditions. Cheers!
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      05-17-2012, 09:41 PM   #11
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Thanks for the advice. None of the people who I consulted with mentioned the reduction in warranty, so I'll keep that in mind. The fact that the tires can't be rotated sucks though. I guess that's the downfall of having sport...
Yeah, especially since they are directional, you can't even move them side to side without remounting. Sucks but hey, we're driving BMWs...we can't sweat little stuff like tire warranties!

I think you'll be happy with them, they are great tires. And even in Texas, you might want to drive in some slippery conditions once in a while.
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      05-18-2012, 05:51 AM   #12
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Running Pilot A/S plus for about 11k miles now and still have plenty of tread to go. These ride way nicer than the stock RFT - softer, grippier, and quieter. I kinda like the tread design too.
Excellent rain and wet traction. Even had decent snow traction this winter in Colorado.
I really don't think you will notice a performance reduction unless you track your car. I drive the mountain roads spiritedly and am always impressed with the handling and ride.

I have cashed in on certificates in the past. I really think they are a good investment, but that's just been my luck with tires... Any thing like that is a gamble. I also carry a BMW flat repair kit since I ditched the RFTs and don't have a spare.

Good Luck
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      05-18-2012, 10:22 AM   #13
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Running Pilot A/S plus for about 11k miles now and still have plenty of tread to go. These ride way nicer than the stock RFT - softer, grippier, and quieter. I kinda like the tread design too.
Excellent rain and wet traction. Even had decent snow traction this winter in Colorado.
I really don't think you will notice a performance reduction unless you track your car. I drive the mountain roads spiritedly and am always impressed with the handling and ride.

I have cashed in on certificates in the past. I really think they are a good investment, but that's just been my luck with tires... Any thing like that is a gamble. I also carry a BMW flat repair kit since I ditched the RFTs and don't have a spare.

Good Luck
Thanks man!
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      05-19-2012, 01:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Well still pondering the A/S option at the moment. The Michelins have great reviews everywhere, they have their 45k mileage warranty plus the $70 rebate which brings the price down a bit. I don't intend on taking the repair/replacement certificates since the roads in TX are pretty decent.

I know the Contis are good, but I've read that the (comparably) softer sidewalls take away some of the road feel. The Potenzas - I've had them on my Subaru (RE960) and now the 335 (RFT). Although they're both summers, I've developed a strong aversion to Bridgestones from those experiences.

My stock tires still have decent tread on them but they're just too damn noisy.
Was the road noise the issue for the Potenzas?
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      05-19-2012, 05:41 PM   #15
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Was the road noise the issue for the Potenzas?
Mostly the runflats. The RE960's would make a low rumbling noise on the highway when there were people in the back seat.
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      05-20-2012, 01:16 PM   #16
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I've had both plus the michelin super sports. My car has upgraded suspension with M3 bits and olhins suspension.
My take:
Michelin PS2 A/S - a bit noiser but awesome tire. Wet and dry grip plus cornering is a plus. The fronts wore perfect but the rears, (275/30/19) didnt. Seems to cup. Alignment and air pressure was not an issue.
Conti DWS. - Quiet and grippy but not as good on handling. (i'm hard street driver) Cornering feels a bit unstable due to softer sidewalls.
Michelin SS - Awesome traction and stability. Quiet enough compared to the others.

Up in vancouver, canada, i need multiple sets or a single All Season as the weather cools off faster.
I run the DWS for the coolers months, the Super Sports for summer (Basically June to September) and Michelin X-Ice for cold winter and snow.
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      05-21-2012, 11:36 AM   #17
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Nice...as long as you're happy with the tire choice, that's all that matters. I'm sure you saved a few bucks by going with the DWS' too.

Wet traction on these is excellent, so I'm sure you'll be surprised by them on the next rainy day.

Report back if you get any vibration issues though, or have anything else to add to the review.
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      05-22-2012, 12:30 PM   #18
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I have DWS' on the E90 and would not recommend them given the quality control issues, etc. that I have gone through with them.
What quality control issues have you dealt with? I just got one of my front tires replaced by tirerack as it had a 'hop' on it. I'm really frustrated with having to change tires and deal with their problems. I just want to drive my damn car!!

Also, what spare kits are you guys using? Links?

Thanks!
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      05-22-2012, 02:18 PM   #19
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What quality control issues have you dealt with? I just got one of my front tires replaced by tirerack as it had a 'hop' on it.
The issues I was initially having were related to high road force numbers given that the tires were out of round. I went through 7 tires before finding a set of four that were (barely) acceptable in terms of vibration compliance. I'm almost sure that 'hop' you were feeling was because the tire was either out of round, not force matched to your rim, or both because I was experiencing the same thing.

Even still, the tires are really inconsistent and they flat spot like crazy!!! After all the drama I went through with these things I'm only marginally happy with them, at best.
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      05-22-2012, 03:16 PM   #20
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The issues I was initially having were related to high road force numbers given that the tires were out of round. I went through 7 tires before finding a set of four that were (barely) acceptable in terms of vibration compliance. I'm almost sure that 'hop' you were feeling was because the tire was either out of round, not force matched to your rim, or both because I was experiencing the same thing.

Even still, the tires are really inconsistent and they flat spot like crazy!!! After all the drama I went through with these things I'm only marginally happy with them, at best.
Damnn man, I feel your pain. Tires can really be a bitch and torture, especially because they're detrimental to the ride quality and performance of the car.

What do you mean by 'they were out of round'? The guy at the garage this morning mounted and balanced my new tire but said he couldn't balance it properly because it was too heavy?? He then said if I had any vibration I should come back. After driving on the new tires for 10 mins, the vibration was 10 times worse than it was earlier... FML
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      05-22-2012, 08:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SERI335 View Post
***EDIT***

ENDED UP GETTING CONTINENTAL DWS INSTEAD

So, I went into my local Discount Tire this morning as they were giving me the Michelins for $920 (after tax, installed). I ended up letting them put the tires on, but when the car came out, it looked like a crossover on sport suspension.

I said ok, lemme give it a try. My first impression behind the wheel was the night and day difference between the heavy, precise steering feel with using the rft's (that I like), and the looser, spongy steering feel on the Michelins (which I initially don't like, but still have not made up my mind about). I said okay again. I then did some driving on some backroads, across some train crossings, and coarse asphalt. I must admit that the car is a lot more comfortable to drive. There was no more harsh jarring on road holes and the wheel noise is virtually zero at all speeds. I did notice however that all my tire pressures were showing low as much as I tried to reset it. Was ditching the runflats a good idea?? I sat and thought about it for a bit...

When I got back home, I could not help but watch the suv-looking sidewalls which I was going to live with for the next couple years. I called up Discount Tire and asked them to weigh in. The guy at the store that I dealt with were completely unhelpful at this point since my questions post-purchase didn't seem to matter to him at all. He also told me that there was absolutely nothing they had as an alternative, and taking off the tires and exchanging (next week when they get more stock) would set me back additional labor and restocking fees. I didn't understand initially, since the company prides itself on its 30-day exchange policy. Even the hold recording on their phones boasts about it. I asked him about the advertisements, but there was a lot of reluctance on his end to pursue anything further.

Fast forward this evening, I decided to call another branch close to me and they told me to bring it in and have a chat. Their alternative was the Conti DWS, which they said they would be able to put on at no cost if I wasn't happy with the Michelins. They did indicate that they would prefer that I decide on it by end of day (not sure what's with the disregard to their 30-day satisfaction guarantee again). After reading many reviews about both tires, there was nothing to lose at this point. I then told them to put on the Contis. During this time, an M3 buddy of mine rang me up and reminded me that to reset the TPMS fully, the end button on the stalk need to be depressed for a full 5 seconds until the "resetting" indicator comes up. I was doing the complete opposite earlier in the day.

After the install, did the same set of loops and even though there is no road noise difference between both brands, the Contis seemed more sure footed and less spongy. It may also be due to the extra 2-3 PSI's I told them to put in the tire, but time will tell.

So, at the end of the day I suggest that if you like the stiffer, precise feel that you get when you first drove your car - go with some good run flats (ike the PS2's). I'm sure the Michelins are also great tires, but it didn't float my boat for the 6 hours I had them on. I'm yet to try these tires in the wet and can give updates if anyone's interested. My initial view is that the Contis are an excellent alternative if you're looking for a set of tires with good tread life. I don't like that the feel and heaviness is a bit gone, but in my wife's book I'm sure it's a plus.

Sorry I didn't get pics of either for a visual comparison.
I'd bet some bucks it was the additional PSI -- I had to up the pressure in mine after changing out the runflats as well. The new ones just don't have the same stiffness in the sidewalls (Thank GOD!)

With 38 all around, they handle great.

The DWS are a good choice too, though. Some like one, some like the other. Don't run stock pressures with either one!
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      05-23-2012, 09:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyking View Post
What do you mean by 'they were out of round'? The guy at the garage this morning mounted and balanced my new tire but said he couldn't balance it properly because it was too heavy?? He then said if I had any vibration I should come back. After driving on the new tires for 10 mins, the vibration was 10 times worse than it was earlier... FML
By 'out of round' I mean that there was a high spot in the tire itself. Either that, or some form of non-uniformity in the sidewall and/or footprint in the tire itself was causing it to not roll perfectly round when compressed/loaded under weight. In my experience, if there is more than 0.010" (or about 10 lbs of road force) of loaded runout in the tire, it WILL cause a hop/vibration in the tire itself. It's very similar when it comes to 'warped" brake rotors; if there is a large enough variation of lateral runout on the rotor itself, you'll get pulsing/vibration in the brake pedal. Same applies to tires.

What kind of machine is your shop using to balance the tires? by "too heavy" was your installer referring to a high road force reading? I'd try and find a shop that has a Hunter GSP9700 and ACTUALLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!

Here's some info on what, more than likely, is causing your vibration:

http://www.gsp9700.com/technical/4202T/5THEO003.htm
http://www.gsp9700.com/technical/4202T/5THEO004.htm
http://www.gsp9700.com/technical/5098t/5098t.htm

Here's a store locator for finding a shop that owns the balancer I suggested:
http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm

Last edited by FCobra94; 05-23-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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