E90Post
 


GTB Performance
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion > Patent Reveals BMW 7 Speed Manual Transmission Design!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-05-2012, 12:55 PM   #1
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,746
iTrader: (0)

Exclamation Patent Reveals BMW 7 Speed Manual Transmission Design!

BIMMERPOST NEWS
Patent Reveals BMW 7 Speed Manual Transmission Design!
101
COMMENTS
Name:  bmw-7-speed-manual-transmision1.jpg
Views: 23268
Size:  43.9 KB

Many of our members know that I love manual transmissions. Yes, DCT is faster and technically superior, but everytime BMW hints at a future with fewer manual offerings (due to low take rates), it makes me cringe.

For manual BMW fans, there may be hope yet! A knock against manual transmissions now is fuel consumption (compared to the latest autos). With 7, 8 or even 9 gears, automatic and automated transmissions have an efficiency advantage as the extra gears allow for more economical gear ratios (think of really long 7th and 8th gears to improve MPG figures). A manual transmission cannot match this as the spacing of the gears for the shifter become too close to each other. But, we've now discovered a patent filed by BMW last year which shows that the company is exploring a manual transmission with 7 or more gears which solves these issues. Porsche by the way, also recently released a 7 speed manual in the new 911 (991).

Here's what BMW's patent entails. BMW first describes a problem with adding more gears above the current six speeds: "an 8 speed manual transmission would need four shift gates for the 8 gears alone" - meaning that's more gears than a normal driver can safely or practically handle (think of the higher probability of a mechanical over-rev from having so many gears, for example). BMW's solution is: A manual gear shifter that only allows the driver to shift into proper gears.

How is this achieved? According to the design, the shift gates are surrounded by a magnetorheologic or electrorheologic fluid. Relying on various sensors, a computerized shifting module calculates which gears are proper and which gears are wrong to select, given the driving situation (e.g. system will not allow shifting to 5th gear at 10mph or -- way worse -- shifting to 1st gear at 100mph). To prevent an improper shift, a magnetic field or electric voltage is applied to change the viscosity of the fluid, which will physically block the engaging of certain gears. This process is illustrated in the first diagram below.

The patent mentions two specific ways of implementing this technology:

Traditional Manual Transmission (With Clutch Pedal)

The technology can be used on a traditional manual transmission with up to 8 gears. The driver rows his own gears as usual (and uses a clutch pedal), but the computerized shifting module described above allows the driver to shift into proper gears while blocking dangerous gears, thus avoiding mechanical over-revs (the "money shift") for a manual transmission with so many gears.

Shift by Wire (Without Clutch Pedal)

BMW also sees a potential second application for this technology in the form of shift by wire. Think of it as a manual transmission without a clutch pedal - a mix of the traditional manual gear shift lever with the automated SMG transmission. When a driver attempts to move the shifter into a gear, the system first calculates if it's a good idea to go into that gear. If it is not, the shift gate for that gear is blocked as described above. If however, the system deems the desired shift OK, the clutch is disengaged automatically, the desired gear engaged, and then (and only then) can the shifter be maneuvered into the particular shift gate by the driver. All this is performed in less than a second. Additionally, the engaged gear number will be illuminated on the shifter's shift pattern (diagram below).

Please keep in mind that patents can take years to see actual implementation, if ever. But, we're happy to have discovered that BMW still sees a potential future for the manual shifting experience, albeit possibly with more gears, better fuel efficiency, and maybe even sans clutch pedal. Bring it on, BMW!


BMW Patent Drawings


Name:  BMW_Patent_7MT_2.jpg
Views: 25221
Size:  179.4 KB





Name:  BMW_Patent_7MT_1.jpg
Views: 26319
Size:  106.5 KB



southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:17 AM   #2
Giannis
New Member
 
Giannis's Avatar
 
Drives: Volvo S60
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Greece

Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)

So, the actual gear has no mechanical connection to the gears themselves, just like Porsche's 7sp. manual. The lag could be an issue, but for me, the biggest issue is the loss of the feel of how the gears connect.

On a different page and completely understanding the idea of a fluid of some certain rheologic properties, my question is where would the limit be. Would a 5th to 2nd downshift be possible or for reasons of pure excitement, will the blocking of the (in this case) rear wheels due to an "improper" downshift, still be possible?
__________________
Senza cuore, saremmo solo macchine...
Giannis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:23 AM   #3
MDyDinanM
OIF Veteran
 
MDyDinanM's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: East Coast

Posts: 2,081
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M5  [3.44]
well it's about time.

I was wondering what car company would do this - glad it's BMW
__________________
Retired: '06 BMW E46 ///M3
Current: '08 BMW E60 DINAN ///M5, Interlagos Blue, SMG
DINAN Stage 2 Suspension, Exhaust, Stage III Software, Front strut braces,
Intakes, 13% Underdrive pulley, 3.91 Differential, RPI Scoops.
MDyDinanM is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:24 AM   #4
Ka razy
Second Lieutenant
 
Ka razy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW 335I xDrive Coupe 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Heaven on Earth... Coeur d' Alene, Idaho

Posts: 225
iTrader: (0)

Great to see hope for us purists. I simply enjoy manually shifting to much. It's a connection I feel is lost on an auto.
__________________
2014 Corvette Z51 Stingray 3LT, 7 M/T
2007 BMW R1200GS Adventure
Retired- 11 BMW 335, 04 BMW Z4, 01 K1200RS, 00 R1150GS
Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the Soul!
Ka razy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:30 AM   #5
SomeRandomer123
Colonel
 
SomeRandomer123's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 328i Luxury - Sport Auto
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lancashire, North West England, UK

Posts: 2,526
iTrader: (0)

Sounds good! Things to go wrong? Many probably but I have one:
Short circuit electrifies the gear stick and leaves the driver paralysed into which he will plough his car into a field and knock some sheep and cows over.

So is 7th the only overdrive gear or is 6th still an overdrive?
Like 7th and 8th are overdrive gears on the 8AT
__________________

Gone: 2006 BMW E60 520d SE 6MT
Gone: 2009 BMW E90-LCI 330d SE 6MT
Current: 2012 F30 328i Luxury 8AT
My 328i initial thoughts + media!http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712673
SomeRandomer123 is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:32 AM   #6
3PedalMINI
Rowing Through The Gears!
 
Drives: 2014 Unlimited Rubicon/2series
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Jersey

Posts: 54
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka razy View Post
Great to see hope for us purists. I simply enjoy manually shifting to much. It's a connection I feel is lost on an auto.
+1 im really excited to see that BMW still has an interest in investing in manual trannys. Looks like ill be a BMW customer for ever as other premium manufactuers are going away from manual. IE audi

Thanks BMW!
__________________
Ordered: 2series 4-17
3PedalMINI is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:33 AM   #7
Giannis
New Member
 
Giannis's Avatar
 
Drives: Volvo S60
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Greece

Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomer123 View Post
Sounds good! Things to go wrong? Many probably but I have one:
Short circuit electrifies the gear stick and leaves the driver paralysed into which he will plough his car into a field and knock some sheep and cows over.
Of course, since electronics are involved, many things could go wrong, but I am of the opinion that a manually operated clutch is one of the most important safety features of a car, meaning that if the gearbox, the engine or electronics fail for some reason, you can still cut power to the wheels and stop safely.

__________________
Senza cuore, saremmo solo macchine...
Giannis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:35 AM   #8
gary88
Ikea enthusiast
 
gary88's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

Posts: 7,962
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 E92 335i  [3.91]
Neat
__________________

garyhebdingjr.com | flickr | Instagram@garyhebding
gary88 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:40 AM   #9
DrivenByE30
Colonel
 
DrivenByE30's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 F30 Lux 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: OC - SoCal

Posts: 2,728
iTrader: (0)

Cool

It might not be an automatic, but it still not a true manual...
(can you dump the clutch?) ...

Well, i can see it is steps closer to simulate the true manual.

And at least, This system will make it much easier/practical for people to drive a "manual"! And it's Fool Proof !

.... as long as you can still dump the clutch... i would be happy.

and what about the clutch point ?? will we still feel it?? i have a feeling no... because no more mechanical link if all is by wire...
The clutch point is another important aspect of the manual!

This is similar to the electrical steering... one more ties to the road being disconnected...

Can't wait to see what BMW comes up... if they can perfectly simulate the manual without any compromise... then i will be sold!
DrivenByE30 is offline   France
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:44 AM   #10
PaneristiDriver
Banned
 
Drives: M3 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Here and there

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

So basically they are coming out with something that Porsche has already done and perfected.
I guess it similar to the fact that Porsche created the dual clutch transmission and BMW has been playing catch up to it too (being the best on the market).
It's a good idea since this will keep the MT around but they arent breaking any ground here that someone hasnt already.
PaneristiDriver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:47 AM   #11
CoolDude196
.
 
CoolDude196's Avatar
 
Drives: f30 20d
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: England

Posts: 614
iTrader: (0)

very clever, very clever indeeed
__________________
AW Sport 20d, 2tb, 552, lc, 397 plus others
CoolDude196 is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 11:55 AM   #12
GOLFFRR
 
GOLFFRR's Avatar
 
Drives: Golf Cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Solvang, CA/Camarillo, CA

Posts: 14,944
iTrader: (4)

sweet
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL US FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Need a quote or assistance? GO HERE-->http://www.bimmerdavid.com/#!blank/c1r1e
Our Parts Store--> http://www.bmwpartspros.com
GOLFFRR is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 12:03 PM   #13
cityazndan
Major
 
cityazndan's Avatar
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Alexandria, VA

Posts: 1,449
iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [5.00]
What's ironic is that I actually work for the PTO haha.
__________________
2007 BMW 335i | 6AT | ZSP | ZPP | ZCW {Smurfin' before it was cool}
|JB4 G5 ISO|Cobb|S&B Filters|RB|Evolution Racewerks|Synapse|ar design|JetHot|Active Autowerke|Bastuck|
||Amuse Ericcson|M-Sport|M5 SMG Knob|V1 Yellow Stripe Steering Wheel||
cityazndan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 12:03 PM   #14
Rolitto
Second Lieutenant
 
Rolitto's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beirut and Canada

Posts: 255
iTrader: (0)

Thanks but give me DCT 7-speed anyday. Although I'm a good driver with a lot of experience in drifting, etc... but manual has been burried in my book.
Rolitto is offline   Lebanon
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 12:05 PM   #15
DDS2015
Major
 
Drives: 2011 E90 LCI 328i xdrive
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg/Minneapolis

Posts: 1,028
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
It sounds complicated. I would wonder about the longevity of the system, and how exactly they'd implement something like this. They could use a similar design to Audi with their electromagnetic shocks, but I wouldn't want tiny iron filings in my transmission. Unless they had a separate compartment just for shifter fluid around the gates of it. Thats the only way I see this working. That being said, I'm no engineer and I'm curious to see what they come up with as I love playing with my stick
DDS2015 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 12:16 PM   #16
Neegra
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: TiAg/Imola MC
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ga

Posts: 36
iTrader: (0)

Great that it is a consideration! At least not like MB wiped out all their Manual transmissions except for the C230?

I really dislike the clutch by wire idea though. As someone else mentioned, it will be like the feeling lost in the electrical steering systems. What I enjoy about a manual is the mechanical feel to it, the car control potential ('potential' because of some drivers haha), and the FUN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka razy View Post
Great to see hope for us purists. I simply enjoy manually shifting to much. It's a connection I feel is lost on an auto.
That statement seems contradictory to me. Clutch by wire, sensors up the wazoo, 'magnetorheologic or electrorheologic fluid', and who knows what else will only lead to a loss in connection and separation from a 'pure' manual transmission. If anything, it is the opposite of a purist approach to me.

(not directed at anyone in particular)
If you don't want a clutch, that's why they have automatic. If you want to just 'shift' get an SMG...or any auto with the little paddles.
Neegra is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 12:17 PM   #17
jonerik26
Lieutenant Colonel
 
jonerik26's Avatar
 
Drives: black 335i e90 PRE-LCI
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: somewhere

Posts: 1,868
iTrader: (21)

Garage List
2007 335i  [4.00]
1998 Acura Integra  [4.25]
2006 325i  [4.00]
wow thats gonna be cool
__________________
jonerik26 is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 12:21 PM   #18
Jblack4083
Captain
 
Drives: E46 ///M3 JB/CB
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Queens, NYC

Posts: 768
iTrader: (0)

Why does everyone seem to think its not a "Pure manual" transmission. Everything seems exactly the same as the 6MT with the exception of it having a feature to prevent shifting into the improper gear.

The second option he writes about which is the clutchless manual is the one that everyone should be worried about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post
It might not be an automatic, but it still not a true manual...
(can you dump the clutch?) ...

Well, i can see it is steps closer to simulate the true manual.

And at least, This system will make it much easier/practical for people to drive a "manual"! And it's Fool Proof !

.... as long as you can still dump the clutch... i would be happy.

and what about the clutch point ?? will we still feel it?? i have a feeling no... because no more mechanical link if all is by wire...
The clutch point is another important aspect of the manual!

This is similar to the electrical steering... one more ties to the road being disconnected...

Can't wait to see what BMW comes up... if they can perfectly simulate the manual without any compromise... then i will be sold!
The first of the two options is an actual manual transmission where the only new electronics involved is the system that blocks out improper shifts. There is still a clutch, you still feel it, you still row the gears, it just has a safety feature to prevent shifting into the improper gear.
Jblack4083 is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 12:38 PM   #19
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,746
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
So, the actual gear has no mechanical connection to the gears themselves, just like Porsche's 7sp. manual.
As far as I know, it's not been confirmed that Porsche's 7-speed manual transmission has no mechanical connection. There have been rumors, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
On a different page and completely understanding the idea of a fluid of some certain rheologic properties, my question is where would the limit be. Would a 5th to 2nd downshift be possible or for reasons of pure excitement, will the blocking of the (in this case) rear wheels due to an "improper" downshift, still be possible?
That's a matter of programming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post
It might not be an automatic, but it still not a true manual...
(can you dump the clutch?) ...
You can dump the clutch in option 1 (with clutch) as it's just a regular MT with the added security of protection against improper shifts while the drive-by-wire scenario doesn't have a clutch pedal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neegra View Post
I really dislike the clutch by wire idea though.
There's no clutch by wire. The first option has a regular mechanical clutch while option 2 has no clutch pedal at all.


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 01:12 PM   #20
-StanceCity-
Major
 
-StanceCity-'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2008/E92/335i/N54
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stance City

Posts: 1,230
iTrader: (1)

So, is the 7th gearing for 130MHP + top speed video clip run? Nice. Await for more crashes news in the welcome page...
-StanceCity- is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 01:18 PM   #21
M_Power_Fan
Private First Class
 
M_Power_Fan's Avatar
 
Drives: the Ring
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Germany

Posts: 104
iTrader: (0)

i think that - in today's cars and today's technology - a manual gearbox doesnt make sense at all.

i think that DCT, speedshifts and stuff is faster, more suitable on a racetrack and paddles on wheel are cool anyway
M_Power_Fan is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      06-06-2012, 01:30 PM   #22
E9TOU
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Goleta, CA

Posts: 298
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to E9TOU
Interesting. I'd really like to see how this patent develops. Manual transmissions for me are a huge plus and I'll continue to buy my cars with MT's as long as they're offered.
E9TOU is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
7 speed manual bmw, 7 speed manual transmission bmw, bmw 7 speed, bmw 7 speed manual, bmw 7 speed manual transmission, bmw 7-speed, bmw 7-speed manual, bmw 7-speed manual transmission, bmw 8 speed, bmw 8 speed manual, bmw 8 speed manual transmission, bmw 8-speed, bmw 8-speed manual transmission, bmw manual 7 speed, bmw manual 7 speed transmission, bmw manual transmission patent, bmw patent, bmw transmission patent

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST