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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > Dealer didnt disclose major repairs on car before I purchased...



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      06-05-2012, 09:34 AM   #23
Charleston335
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I will bud thanks for the help! I just sent him this "After speaking with a couple folks they all mentioned that the price of the car should be lowered since we came to a conclusion of a final price assuming no major work or parts have been replaced and now that we discovered there has been the final value should be adjusted. Can you fax me the form where the work has been done, my friend that is a lawyer wanted to look at it. Fax # is xxxxxxx. Thanks!
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      06-05-2012, 09:37 AM   #24
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I will bud thanks for the help! I just sent him this "After speaking with a couple folks they all mentioned that the price of the car should be lowered since we came to a conclusion of a final price assuming no major work or parts have been replaced and now that we discovered there has been the final value should be adjusted. Can you fax me the form where the work has been done, my friend that is a lawyer wanted to look at it. Fax # is xxxxxxx. Thanks!
Honestly, you should be more direct. These are your statements, your analysis, your position - not this is how I think based on talking to others. That makes you come off unsure and they still think they have some kind of leverage. Go in confidently that you are fully aware of the issues/implications and you came to these conclusions on your own.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes.
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Last edited by 3002 tii; 06-05-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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      06-05-2012, 09:40 AM   #25
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You're right...next email i'll be more aggressive.
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      06-05-2012, 11:59 AM   #26
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Id tell them to throw in a performance exhaust, and youll look the other way on their "mistakes"
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      06-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #27
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Here is what the BMW manager has sent me:


Lewis,

I hope all is well. I see the conversation that you have had with Dan about the damage that was done to your BMW 135 CV. I understand that you are looking for some kind of compensation. I can offer you one of two things; 1. HAG Extended Service Agreement - This will take care of any concerns of repairs (suspension) later down the road.
2. BMW 101 experience - drive up the night before. Stay at a nice hotel. The next day you get to drive on the track in Spartanburg, tour the plant and museum and will close the day with some hot laps.

As you can see we are trying to keep you happy. Let me know what time you will stop by.
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      06-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #28
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Here is what the BMW manager has sent me:


Lewis,

I hope all is well. I see the conversation that you have had with Dan about the damage that was done to your BMW 135 CV. I understand that you are looking for some kind of compensation. I can offer you one of two things; 1. HAG Extended Service Agreement - This will take care of any concerns of repairs (suspension) later down the road.
2. BMW 101 experience - drive up the night before. Stay at a nice hotel. The next day you get to drive on the track in Spartanburg, tour the plant and museum and will close the day with some hot laps.

As you can see we are trying to keep you happy. Let me know what time you will stop by.
1 is stupid because you have no intent on keeping it, so this car will always be under warranty during the lease. And if they're implying that you may possibly be responsible for any suspension work (not covered by warranty) - that's just ridiculous and I'd definitely walk away.

2 is ok, but not really compensation, just some perk which you can do on your own for pretty cheap. You can do a track event with any local club for about $200/day with your own car.

Like I said, if it bothers you that much, just don't sign the docs and return the car (assuming this is an option - might have to check with a lawyer). I would think you'd be able to force them into taking smaller monthly payments. Assuming a lawyer says you have the right to renege on the lease based on this series of events, what incentive do they have to let you go? Presumably they'll have this same issue with someone else down the road so they should try to appease you in some way.

And if you don't truly care about this, I'd say to hook you up with option 3 - $xxx credit to BMW parts/service or have them install PPK1 for free.
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      06-05-2012, 02:28 PM   #29
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I think I am going to ask for the Tire and Wheel warranty as I had it before and has payed itself off or get a PPK1 but not sure if thats smart since I will be installing a JB tune on it...
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      06-05-2012, 02:33 PM   #30
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I think I am going to ask for the Tire and Wheel warranty as I had it before and has payed itself off or get a PPK1 but not sure if thats smart since I will be installing a JB tune on it...
Ha, I can just imagine them d!cking you over later saying "sure we'll cover the damaged rim but we see the control arm was also bent due to the pothole so you'll be paying for that out of pocket - because you didn't opt for HAG"
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      06-05-2012, 02:34 PM   #31
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No way! haha I still have full warranrty during the lease : )
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      06-05-2012, 08:45 PM   #32
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The one thing I think you need to take into consideration is shit happens. What happens in a year from now you have a major life change, ie job loss, family situation, etc. and you need to change/get rid of your car. You now own a car that has had a decent amount of damage to it that affects its real world value. Is your BMW store going to guarantee the value of the car to be the same as one without damage??? Probably not and this is coming from a guy who was a sales mgr in the car business for 8 years. Just some food for thought.
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      06-06-2012, 08:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
You're not proving me wrong in any way with this unnecessary lengthy post. Everything I said was summed up the very beginning (in bold). Anything afterwards is how you'd go about doing what I already said.





So in that case, you have to ask yourself

1) If I could get monthly payments, would I keep the car?
2) Regardless of less monthly payments, I want nothing to do with this car...

I'm guessing it's going to be #1 because everyone has a price. Your monthly payment is = [ (Negotiated Price - $ Down - Residual Value) / # of months ] + Money Factor

You won't be able to change your money factor. The only thing you can change in that equation is your negotiated price, so try having them lower that on the basis of this car is worth LESS than the negotiated price. If the new (lower) monthly payments makes you happy, great sign the docs knowing that you don't plan to buy the car ANYway so you could care less about the post-warranty value of this car. Pay less each month, and then think about your next car.

If it bothers you so much this car has been involved in an accident and no (lesser) monthly payment would keep you satisfied, just WALK away. Don't sign the docs and tell them you want to return the lease.
Kind of skimmed this back and forth - but just so no one leaves misinformed, you can most certainly buy and sell a leased vehicle at a price that is negotiable (but likely close to the buy out, eg sale price amortized for payments). I've unwound 2 BMW leases that way - most recently a 2011 X3. Good luck!
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      06-06-2012, 08:57 PM   #34
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Kind of skimmed this back and forth - but just so no one leaves misinformed, you can most certainly buy and sell a leased vehicle at a price that is negotiable (but likely close to the buy out, eg sale price amortized for payments). I've unwound 2 BMW leases that way - most recently a 2011 X3. Good luck!
Yes, but your post is going to leave others misinformed. You can buy, sell, donate, destroy, a lease vehicle but the point is in order to do any of these, you must FIRST buy the vehicle.

A lease is nothing more than rent payments + option to buy. It is your choice whether or not you want to exercise that option (at the buyout price). And yes that price is also negotiable to a certain degree.

But what OP FAILED TO REALIZE is that he did not retain ANY ownership of this vehicle DURING the lease, which is why he made this thread. He was worried about loss of residual/resale value - but that is one of the benefits of leasing, you aren't stuck with obsolescence. Thus I tried to clear things up for him...


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That makes sense but I do have the option to sell, trade, or buy it...
You can do whatever you want WHEN the car is YOURS. If you want to own the car, you need to BUY it upon lease termination.


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I went over this with the Sales rep a few times and he said I can sell it if I want I just have to make sure I payoff the amount I owe on the car...
Yes, you can sell it after you buy. But why would you buy it just so you can resell it? Presumably you're not going to be able to sell it for higher than what you paid at the dealer (even if this damage history was a non-issue)


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I cant take it to a carmax or another dealer or put it on autotrader and just sell it? Bc that is not what they told me and its not what ive been reading...
Why would you want to sell to Carmax or autotrader? You are not obligated to sell the car since you don't own the car. Just walk away from the lease. And if you think you can profit by buying it from the dealer and reselling, think again.


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Oh ok I was actually talking about getting rid of the car before the lease is up...
What you are suggesting is breaking the lease. You are legally obligated to fulfill the lease.
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      06-06-2012, 09:22 PM   #35
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Op, take my advice and make them give you a performance exhaust, youll love it.
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      06-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
Yes, but your post is going to leave others misinformed. You can buy, sell, donate, destroy, a lease vehicle but the point is in order to do any of these, you must FIRST buy the vehicle.

A lease is nothing more than rent payments + option to buy. It is your choice whether or not you want to exercise that option (at the buyout price). And yes that price is also negotiable to a certain degree.

But what OP FAILED TO REALIZE is that he did not retain ANY ownership of this vehicle DURING the lease, which is why he made this thread. He was worried about loss of residual/resale value - but that is one of the benefits of leasing, you aren't stuck with obsolescence. Thus I tried to clear things up for him...

You can do whatever you want WHEN the car is YOURS. If you want to own the car, you need to BUY it upon lease termination.

Yes, you can sell it after you buy. But why would you buy it just so you can resell it? Presumably you're not going to be able to sell it for higher than what you paid at the dealer (even if this damage history was a non-issue)

Why would you want to sell to Carmax or autotrader? You are not obligated to sell the car since you don't own the car. Just walk away from the lease. And if you think you can profit by buying it from the dealer and reselling, think again.

What you are suggesting is breaking the lease. You are legally obligated to fulfill the lease.
^this post x10000 - its all spelled out very clearly here but OP doesn't seem to comprehend.....
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      06-07-2012, 04:03 PM   #37
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They offered the premium tire and wheel package,i had this on my 335 and its well worth it. I got 3 free tired bc of nails in them and they repaired 3 rims due to curb rash. Peace of mind
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      06-08-2012, 10:04 AM   #38
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Here was the repair done on the car...
Attached Images
File Type: pdf dd.135.pdf (137.6 KB, 50 views)
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      06-10-2012, 04:20 AM   #39
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I'm curious as to what they set the residual value at since there is known damage on the vehicle, BMW already tends to artifically inflate residual values to make lower lease payments attractive to customers. I would reevaluate your lease contract and decide if you can successfully re-negotiate your contract before signing the forms. You typically cant negotiate residual value or money factor (you can buy down MF), but you can negotiate selling price and maybe extended warranty or service (if you plan to keep the car).
I also dont know how warranty claims are handled if repair work was handled outside of BMW and you have a failure with a replaced part later down the road. Looks like BMW parts were used so it should not be an issue. I doubt the Volvo shop is a certified BMW repair center. This really may not matter or be applicable, but you may want to ask.
If you are really concerned, I would say investigate turning it in and negotiating on another vehicle.
Good luck!
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      06-11-2012, 11:09 AM   #40
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Volvo shop is a certified shop. They were going to get me into another car but id have to pay the difference if it was more expensive.
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      06-18-2012, 02:07 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
Yes, but your post is going to leave others misinformed. You can buy, sell, donate, destroy, a lease vehicle but the point is in order to do any of these, you must FIRST buy the vehicle.

A lease is nothing more than rent payments + option to buy. It is your choice whether or not you want to exercise that option (at the buyout price). And yes that price is also negotiable to a certain degree.

But what OP FAILED TO REALIZE is that he did not retain ANY ownership of this vehicle DURING the lease, which is why he made this thread. He was worried about loss of residual/resale value - but that is one of the benefits of leasing, you aren't stuck with obsolescence. Thus I tried to clear things up for him...




You can do whatever you want WHEN the car is YOURS. If you want to own the car, you need to BUY it upon lease termination.




Yes, you can sell it after you buy. But why would you buy it just so you can resell it? Presumably you're not going to be able to sell it for higher than what you paid at the dealer (even if this damage history was a non-issue)




Why would you want to sell to Carmax or autotrader? You are not obligated to sell the car since you don't own the car. Just walk away from the lease. And if you think you can profit by buying it from the dealer and reselling, think again.




What you are suggesting is breaking the lease. You are legally obligated to fulfill the lease.
Very thorough - but just to be clear, you're not obligated to wait until the end of a lease to buyout the car. There's nothing preventing you from unwinding a lease early. Of course, as you've suggested, that requires purchasing the car (at the then buyout price, something BMW is happy to quote and, depending on where they struck your residual, to negotiate). I would note that you can also trade a leased vehicle on a new lease or buy (from any make). They'll simply do the same.
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      06-18-2012, 09:08 PM   #42
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First off, all dealerships are full disclosure. Its against the law for a dealership to hide anything. Secondly, you can trade in your lease but you will take a huge hit since you are only financing 1/2 of the car. Add the fact that the current 2012 1 series is soon to be outdated with the release of the new 1er come next year. If I were you I'd have them find me another car, although it may be too late already. And those premium tire and wheel packages cost pennys to the dealer.
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