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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos > Subaru BRZ Concept STI - Amazing!!!



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      06-11-2012, 11:59 AM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Because the Miata is the most popular track car there is, with NASA and SCCA class support and they're proven, cheap and plentiful. The BRZ looks promising, has a fixed roof and some smart engineering, but until they've been around for a decade or more, the Miata will continue to be the smarter track choice.

I haven't seen what official race support Subie/Toyota are offering for the 86, but Mazdaspeed provides so much support for the Miata (and other Mazdas) that it's a huge bonus for any aspiring track junkie.
Exactly.

On any given day at the track, you will see half a dozen stock to modded Miatas. The funny thing is, I've seen these guys passing up M3s, and C63 AMGs with ease on the track against supposedly "experienced" drivers.
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      06-11-2012, 01:10 PM   #508
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This the Miata surely can't do...












Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-11-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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      06-11-2012, 01:14 PM   #509
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I'm going to go ahead and guess that a guy who spends all his time on a BMW forum posting about a Toyota can't do it either.
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      06-11-2012, 01:23 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
I'm going to go ahead and guess that a guy who spends all his time on a BMW forum posting about a Toyota can't do it either.
I need to go to the doctor...


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      06-11-2012, 01:38 PM   #511
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My problem is I don't know what I like more, the girl or the car... I really need a doctor

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      06-11-2012, 07:04 PM   #512
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While comparing the torque curves of both the new Boxster's engines (2.7L and 3.4L) and the Toyobaru's engine I realized that all have the same mid-range dip (around 3500 rpm) despite the fact of the Porsche engines having 6 cylinders and the Toyobaru's only four. Also, all the three have the same compression ratio (12.5:1) and are direct fuel injection engines.

So, it's interesting to note that this mid-range torque dip clearly IS a NA boxer engine trait and I was wondering why is that... any ideas?!

This is important because I was starting accusing Subaru of poor engine engineering. But the fact is it seems to exist some kind of intrinsic limitation to the NA boxer engines because if we look at the 2.7L Porsche engine it only has 265hp which means that the Toyobaru's engine has a higher specific engine output (100hp/liter) than the Porsche's (98hp/liter) even though the Porsche engine has 6 cylinders which helps it to rev easier to its higher (7800 rpm) rev limit.

Then again, the Toyobaru is a fabulous piece of engineering any way you look at it!

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-11-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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      06-12-2012, 04:52 PM   #513
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Quote:
Mark Higgins in a rally-prepped version of the car. Modifications include: 18x8-inch wheels wrapped in 245mm Dunlop SportMaxx tires, ProFlex dampers, stiffer springs, a louder exhaust, and a full cage, fire system, and race seats in the stripped interior, helping to bring the car's weight down to just over 2,500 pounds, about 200 pounds lighter than stock. The ride-along took place on a short section of the Manx Rally course

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      06-12-2012, 05:47 PM   #514
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Take this...




Now add this...




and this...




Then you'll get this...





and this becomes...




into this...





Now that's a big fat torque curve...

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-12-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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      06-13-2012, 02:17 PM   #515
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Ok guys... we already know that the Toyobaru's engine is torque-ill...





So, Toyota and Subaru have to get to an agreement soon about using a more powerful version of the Subaru 1.6L DI Turbo engine in the Toyobaru, say 200-210 hp, to at least match the NA engine BUT with the BIG advantage of having much more torque (250 Nm at least) over a broader RPM range... Everyone else is doing it, the last one being Mercedes with the petrol engines in the new A-Class: Powerful, responsive and super-clean!



Quote:


The A 200 BlueEFFICIENCY with the same displacement of 1595 cc develops 115 kW (156 hp) and a maximum torque of 250 Nm, which is likewise available from 1250 to 4000 rpm. It sprints from zero to 100 km/h in 8.4 seconds (8.3 seconds) and has a top speed of 224 km/h (224 km/h), but is happy with an average 5.5 l/100 km of fuel (5.4 l/100 km), corresponding to CO2 emissions of 129 g/km (127 g/km).

No turbo-lag thanks to scavenging

Above all, Mercedes-Benz engineers were able to obtain a high output from a small displacement by the use of a turbocharger. This forces the intake air into the combustion chambers at a pressure of up to 1.9 bar, with the turbine vanes rotating at up to 230,000 rpm. The charger has been designed to deliver high torque even at low engine speeds. A newly developed manifold turbocharger module is integrated and positioned in front of the engine for the best possible cooling. Separate exhaust ducting from the cylinders to the turbocharger and the high exhaust temperature of up to 1050 degrees Celsius make optimal use of the exhaust gas energy, producing a high output and outstanding responsiveness.

By using a combination of direct injection and variable adjustment of the intake and exhaust camshafts, the developers were also able to exploit the advantages of so-called scavenging: partly overlapping the opening times of the intake and exhaust valves causes some of the cold intake air to flush the hot exhaust gas from the cylinder into the exhaust manifold, which considerably improves charging compared to conventional operation.
Especially at low engine speeds, and thanks to the increased mass flow in the exhaust tract, the turbocharger also responds much more rapidly – this completely avoids any “turbo-lag” or delay when moving off. The direct injection system ensures that the fresh gas is not yet mixed with fuel when it enters the cylinder, as would be the case in engines with manifold injection. There are therefore no undesirable scavenging losses, i.e. unburned fuel flushed into the exhaust manifold.


Torque levels like a diesel
As a result the new 1.6-litre four-cylinder in the A-Class already delivers its maximum torque at 1250 rpm, maintaining it to 4000 rpm.
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      06-13-2012, 09:03 PM   #516
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Look at MotorSport's times table at the Magny-Cours circuit (France):

Corvette ZR1............................. 1'19''33
Chevrolet Camaro SS................... 1'26''61
Mégane RS Trophy...................... 1'27''30
Honda S2000.............................. 1'29''15
Hyundai Genesis Coupé V6............ 1'29''90
Peugeot RCZ THP 200.................. 1'31''00
Mini Cooper S JCW...................... 1'31''01
Renault Clio RS........................... 1'31''53
Subaru BRZ.............................. 1'31''60
Renault Twingo RS...................... 1'32''50
Mazda MX-5 MZR 2.0.................. 1'33''25


This is a definitive evidence of the Toyobaru's handling prowess... loosing only seven hundredths to the Clio RS, which despite having the same tires size (215/45/17) and weight (1240kg) has shorter gear ratios and a stronger engine, as can be seen in its torque curve already shown in other posts, IS a remarkable achievement and proves once again that EVO's decision of testing the Toyobaru's automatic version in the first place, let alone against the Mégane RS, clearly had a hidden agenda... see what they say :

Quote:

I was expecting a bit of naturally aspirated zip in the manner of a Renaultsport Clio Cup, which for the record has 197bhp and 159lb ft, weighs 1204 kg and is a car I adore.

Additionally, the car which has the kind of engine specification that the Toyobaru should have had in the first place - the Peugeot RCZ (200 hp, 275 Nm of torque, direct injection, 1.6L Turbo engine developed jointly by BMW and PSA Peugeot Citroën) - is almost one second faster than the Toyobaru despite its BIG weight disadvantage of 182 kg (1421 kg against Toyobaru's 1239 kg)! Coincidentally, they both do 7,6 s 0-62 mph but Peugeot's max speed is WAY higher @ 240 km/h (149 mph).

Now just imagine what that kind of engine specification would do to the lighter and beautiful handling dream car that the Toyobaru is!


Subaru BRZ lap time by MotorSport:

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      06-14-2012, 03:08 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
This the Miata surely can't do...

Now THIS makes me totally regret buying an E89 instead. My seats CANNOT LEAN BACK LIKE THAT!
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      06-14-2012, 06:56 PM   #518
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Now THIS makes me totally regret buying an E89 instead. My seats CANNOT LEAN BACK LIKE THAT!
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      06-14-2012, 07:17 PM   #519
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International Engine of the Year Awards 2012

1.4-Litre to 1.8-Litre category

Winner:

BMW-PSA 1.6-litre turbo petrol
(Mini Cooper S, Clubman Cooper S, Countryman Cooper S, Coupe / Roadster Cooper S (184ps), Mini Cooper Works, Clubman Cooper Works, Coupe / Roadster Cooper Works (211ps), Peugeot 207, 207cc, 208, 308, 308cc, 3008, 508, 5008 (156ps), 308 GTI (200ps), RCZ (156ps, 200ps), Citroen DS3, C4 Picasso / Grand Picasso, C5, DS5 (156ps), DS5 (200ps), DS3 Racing (202ps), DS4 (163ps), DS4 Racing (200ps))


I really hope that Toyota and Subaru are doing their homework...
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      06-15-2012, 09:42 AM   #520
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Nice information about Toyobaru and Toyobaru's items weight... things are indeed small and light, that's way this car is SO good:


OEM BRZ Premium 6MT, full tank of gas, as delivered from dealership


OEM 17" wheel & tire combo


OEM spare tire with liner foam


OEM front brake disc


OEM Rear brake disc


OEM Front brake caliper, bracket and pads




OEM Rear brake caliper, bracket and pads




OEM battery and Super B 10P Lithium-Ion Battery (= 3.9 lbs) size comparison

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      06-15-2012, 11:20 AM   #521
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GoingTooFast, have you bought one yet? I saw a few of these on a tractor trailer being hauled on the 405 yesterday.
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      06-16-2012, 07:51 AM   #522
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I'd go white with bronze wheels personally. Straight JDM y0! ; )
What about black & bronze wheels...


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      06-16-2012, 08:01 AM   #523
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Quoting Phil Grabow:

Quote:
We didn’t plan on racing our FRS this weekend for the Whelen USTT Championship but with our STi down and out we decided to make lemonade! With the FRS there just to show off I couldn’t think of a better way to fully test this car than to throw it into battle against much more serious hardware. With everyone on race tires we stuffed our STi Rota DPT race wheels and tires on there and gave it a go.

With such little power going up against some heavy weights we didn’t win anything but huge respect from everyone that saw this car on the track.

Had a blast and can’t wait to fully build this car up into a potent Time Attack race car. Yeah the driving dynamics are phenomenal for totally OEM suspension and alignment. Can't say I've every slapped a set of race tires on and had a car handle this well out of the box. The brakes are adequate at this power and grip level since you don't use them much. More friction with track pads will help shorten distances with race tires.

Stock Toyobaru with race tires at serious Time Attack...



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      06-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #524
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Cool...




Last edited by GoingTooFast; 06-16-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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      06-17-2012, 07:53 AM   #525
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This car can get really neat...





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      06-17-2012, 05:50 PM   #526
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Saw my first BRZ yesterday. It was blue...the thing looked sharp from the front, but the rest of it was pretty much vanilla, not that I expected anything else. Wasn't as small as I was expecting. Definitely sized 'just right'.
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      06-17-2012, 11:32 PM   #527
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Saw my first brz a few days ago, that thing was sharp as hell! Will Definitely get one in the next few years as a daily driver!
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      06-18-2012, 01:43 PM   #528
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