E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > VW owns Porsche now



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-05-2012, 04:38 PM   #1
will.c
Lieutenant
 
will.c's Avatar
 
Drives: E46M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Jersey

Posts: 560
iTrader: (5)

VW owns Porsche now

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86414D20120705

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-takeover-cars

Any immediate thoughts OT?
will.c is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 05:15 PM   #2
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
 
MediaArtist's Avatar
 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Posts: 1,189
iTrader: (0)

They also own Audi, and Lamborghini. As long as they keep making great cars, don't care.
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i
MediaArtist is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 05:55 PM   #3
UltimateBMW
Brigadier General
 
UltimateBMW's Avatar
 
Drives: MP4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South

Posts: 3,287
iTrader: (0)

Enjoy the Porsche brand dilution, and subsequent brand whoring.
__________________
UltimateBMW is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 06:16 PM   #4
boymonkey
Lieutenant
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 536
iTrader: (0)

VW/Audi reliability
boymonkey is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #5
will.c
Lieutenant
 
will.c's Avatar
 
Drives: E46M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Jersey

Posts: 560
iTrader: (5)

Yes, so are Bentley and Bugatti owned by VW. That's the point; they own too many, and they are all the same.

Porsche is such a unique machinery, I fear that their current special nature might be "diluted," as UltimateBMW has stated, to mere grand tourer/cruiser.

What's next; GT3 RS 4.0 w/ "fast shifting" auto trans, "intricate" AWD system, and a supercharger for doing 250MPH? Porsche AWD wagon? ..Wait... lol jk
will.c is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 06:42 PM   #6
BabyrayS2k
Private First Class
 
BabyrayS2k's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i Sedan Sport Package
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Posts: 153
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boymonkey View Post
VW/Audi reliability
And BMW is better.
BabyrayS2k is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 07:30 PM   #7
jpsum
Major
 
jpsum's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 TSX
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Haven area

Posts: 1,089
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boymonkey View Post
VW/Audi reliability

+1 I can't figure out a way to get rid of my Golf fast enough.
jpsum is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 08:01 PM   #8
PINeely
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 E90 N54
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS

Posts: 1,543
iTrader: (0)

I wouldn't mind VWs that drive like Porsches. I would mind Porsches that drive like VWs.
__________________
PINeely is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 08:14 PM   #9
fitchesbass
Captain
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA

Posts: 890
iTrader: (1)

First thought: surprise!

VW just acquired Ducati too via Audi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Enjoy the Porsche brand dilution, and subsequent brand whoring.
Hmmm that seemed to happen with the lambo's.. oh wait. Better than the BMW M branding dilution.. they're doing it to themselves. LOL

__________________
IB ZHP E92 + 911 carrera project car
Previous:
E86 Z4M - Sold
E36 M3 - Sold
fitchesbass is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 08:17 PM   #10
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
 
MediaArtist's Avatar
 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Posts: 1,189
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonho View Post

What's next; GT3 RS 4.0 w/ "fast shifting" auto trans, "intricate" AWD system, and a supercharger for doing 250MPH? Porsche AWD wagon? ..Wait... lol jk
Don't know if you've been paying attention, but that's pretty much how the market is going for most sports car companies; Ferrari makes a 4 seater, the 458 Italia doesn't even come with a manual, Lambo has an SUV coming (Urus), BMW is making electric 4 seater "super cars".

About the only companies that make cars purely for Motorsport enthusiast is McLaren and Pagani, and good luck getting an allocation.
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i

Last edited by MediaArtist; 07-05-2012 at 08:24 PM.
MediaArtist is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 08:21 PM   #11
fitchesbass
Captain
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA

Posts: 890
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PINeely View Post
I wouldn't mind VWs that drive like Porsches. I would mind Porsches that drive like VWs.
LOL they've had a relationship for a long time. People overreact with this stuff imo.

Ferdinand Porsche and the original beetle....porsche and vw with the 914... more recently when they introduced the cayenne and using the same chassis as the touareg. OMG the GT3 is gonna drive like a jetta now.. shit. VW group isn't dumb.

__________________
IB ZHP E92 + 911 carrera project car
Previous:
E86 Z4M - Sold
E36 M3 - Sold
fitchesbass is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 08:23 PM   #12
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
 
MediaArtist's Avatar
 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Posts: 1,189
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Enjoy the Porsche brand dilution, and subsequent brand whoring.
VW has had a close working relationship with Porsche for nearly 50 years, the 914 was born out of that working relationship, and enthusiast till this day love that car (I see it at Cars and Coffee even today). I don't understand why people suddenly expect their relationship to turn out bad cars, and a diluted brand.
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i
MediaArtist is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-05-2012, 10:56 PM   #13
will.c
Lieutenant
 
will.c's Avatar
 
Drives: E46M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Jersey

Posts: 560
iTrader: (5)

Well I guess they have had a long history of relationships here and there, but now for the first time, VW is the ultimate decision maker of all Porsche products. I think it's reasonable to expect that future P-cars will have uncontested influences from VW, and that these will ultimately benefit VW themselves more than Porsche brand.

MediaArtist, I know what you mean; the market is changing. And since auto industry is, just like everything else, a money-driven industry, they need to adapt quickly to the changing market and produce what majority of the population needs and wants. They even stated that they're looking into quadrupling the brand (I forget the exact phrasing). This must mean that they are targeting more of that majority market. I'm generalizing here, but now what this market wants are: status symbol; comfort; power; fuel efficiency; safety; quietness; eye-catching style (not necessarily "good"); etc.

From what I can see at the road course tracks, BMWs and P-cars populate the vast majority among all those who enjoy driving their cars near the limit. (You hardly ever see any Ferrari, Lambo, Maserati, or any other exotics. What are they made for then?) Having said that, I can certainly notice that the newer generation BMWs have been more scarce to find at the track. What I keep hearing from a lot of people in this type of environment is that these newer BMWs are just not as sharp and focused machines as it used to be decades ago; rather they have just become fantastic daily-drivers and all-arounders... adapting to the majority of the market trend. I can't blame them though; their sales are tremendous. And they are in here to make money, so...

On that note, what impressed me with Porsches is that you still find the newest 911s, Boxsters, and Caymans all over the track. I'd even say that the newer models are majority among the Porsche crowd, despite their hefty price tag. I thought this showed me that Porsche's focus was still on the right direction regardless of what the market wants. I do see that they've been making some funny sedans and SUVs... but still, they make some very track-worthy cars to this date.

To wrap this long post up, (it's just my own opinion, all of this) with such diversified portfolio as VW has, they would more likely to turn the focused Porsche cars into something softer, heavier, safer, and worst of all, more of a mere status symbol on, say, "4-door coupes." I mean, ultimately, the more time Porsche's Engineers spend on all different types of highway-terrorizing vehicles' complex suspension technology, the less time they have in developing a track-optimized GT3 RS or alike, in my logic.

Well it's better for me. My bucket list for cars to own only gets shorter; in fact, it stops around 2006. I hope VW proves me wrong; I hope I'll have something new to drive when I get older.
will.c is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-08-2012, 12:23 PM   #14
brandonb
New Member
 
Drives: blue
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: US

Posts: 10
iTrader: (0)

Ferdinand Porsche made the Beetle for Hitler, so their history have crossed path before... Nice that Hitler's old car company now is ready for "global leadership"!
__________________
brandonb is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #15
wisesoul
Savoir Faire
 
wisesoul's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M5
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Los Angeles, Ca

Posts: 1,616
iTrader: (0)

Fine by me. Always been related, now Porsche has access to more money
__________________
Current: Alpine White F10 M5|H&R springs|12mm/10mm spacers|Eisenmann Race
Sold:Imola Yellow RS4-KW V3|MTM 10mm spacers|Hotchkis rear sway bar|APR Stage 1|Milltek Catless|RNS-E|Euro RS4 Flat bottom Steering Wheel
Sold:E46 323i
wisesoul is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      07-10-2012, 06:33 PM   #16
Bobble
Major
 
Bobble's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 335i/RIP E46 323Ci
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,215
iTrader: (1)

What makes you think VW will have the ultimate say in all things? VAG is a group of companies that operate almost autonomously. Lambo and Bentley do not ask VW for design cues nor vice versa. Will they have to answer for economic failure to the board at VAG, certainly, design and engineering maybe not so much.
The biggest reason, IMO, you do not see many newer BMW's on the track in one word is weight. All those cushy luxury appointments do not translate well to the track.
__________________
08 E90 335i Monaco Blue Gray Dakota ZPP ZSP Heated Seats CA Step w/Paddles iPod
Bobble is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2012, 02:04 PM   #17
michaelthepsycho
Lieutenant Colonel
 
michaelthepsycho's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 Montego Blue E90 335i Step
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CA

Posts: 1,632
iTrader: (4)

There are three forms to an auto business model IMO:

1) All normal people cars like VW. Their products are bankrolled by their generic offerings. Nobody has any contention with companies like Toyota because they build people-pleasers.

2) Half and half. Porsche under last decade's management team is bank-rolling the 911 / Cayman / Boxster with the Cayenne and Panamera. They are going dangerously soft despite the RS offerings because, let's be honest, it's not their most sold dish and they have no incentive to keep making non-profitable products. Ferrari with the FF??? Uhhh.. No thanks

3) Specialized, hard-core companies. Pagani, McLaren, Noble, and stuff like Zenvo. Low sales volumes and customers' voices are heard. These types of companies are very tricky to manage. Make or bust IMO.

The new 991 is... Quite chubster in terms of styling. The weight might have gone down but most reviews have said it's lost its edge. I think we are all worried about that.
__________________
FS: 335i Non-sport Springs , My car
2011 BMW 335i Step - Montego Blue / Chestnut Brown

Last edited by michaelthepsycho; 07-13-2012 at 12:12 AM.
michaelthepsycho is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2012, 02:23 PM   #18
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
 
MediaArtist's Avatar
 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

Posts: 1,189
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho View Post
They are going dangerously soft even with the RS offerings because,
What? How are they going "dangerously soft" with the RS? It comes with a roll cage, a plastic engine cover, carbon fiber wing, and a close-ratio 6 speed tranny. It weighs 3,000lbs dry. If that's soft, then what do you call a 335i with a step tranny? Or the 3,600lbs E92 M3?

Also they sell out every allocation of the GT3 RS they have. Why would you say it's not profitable to make the car?
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i

Last edited by MediaArtist; 07-12-2012 at 02:42 PM.
MediaArtist is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2012, 08:22 PM   #19
len56
Private
 
len56's Avatar
 
Drives: like a gentleman, yo
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)

"VW and Audi are a lot like a really hot girlfriend...looks great, amazing in bed, but every once in awhile you gotta throw some money down on the table so she sticks around."

hahaha perfect

http://www.vwforum.com/forums/f29/ju...ability-39928/
__________________
i love german cars
len56 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2012, 08:24 PM   #20
Greenkirby21
Vrooom :)
 
Greenkirby21's Avatar
 
Drives: C7 Stringray
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dream Land

Posts: 2,600
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to Greenkirby21
i think this means nothing LOL.
__________________
2009 128i Coupe Crimson Red MODS: -Injen Intake-Magnaflow Exhaust-Carbon Fiber Spoiler - Carbon Fiber Grilles - OZ Ultraleggeras - CF Mirrors
Greenkirby21 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-13-2012, 12:15 AM   #21
michaelthepsycho
Lieutenant Colonel
 
michaelthepsycho's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 Montego Blue E90 335i Step
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CA

Posts: 1,632
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
What? How are they going "dangerously soft" with the RS? It comes with a roll cage, a plastic engine cover, carbon fiber wing, and a close-ratio 6 speed tranny. It weighs 3,000lbs dry. If that's soft, then what do you call a 335i with a step tranny? Or the 3,600lbs E92 M3?

Also they sell out every allocation of the GT3 RS they have. Why would you say it's not profitable to make the car?
Daily drivers with a little sporty intentions.

I think I worded it incorrectly. I meant to say despite their RS offerings. Don't get me wrong, I love those. It's been edited to reflect that.

And profit-wise, I'm pretty sure the RS cars don't make as much a margin as the regular cars.
__________________
FS: 335i Non-sport Springs , My car
2011 BMW 335i Step - Montego Blue / Chestnut Brown
michaelthepsycho is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      07-13-2012, 01:34 AM   #22
Comet
Troll Harder
 
Comet's Avatar
 
Drives: 997 GT3, 997 4 GTS, X6M
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montreal, Beirut

Posts: 596
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelthepsycho View Post
The new 991 is... Quite chubster in terms of styling. The weight might have gone down but most reviews have said it's lost its edge. I think we are all worried about that.
It has lost its edge
I drove one. From the second I sat in it, it didn't feel like a Porsche anymore.
Fast? hell yeah
Corners better? I guess
Feel? the car drove me.

granted I wasn't able to test drive a manual one, so that could account for some of it. According to my dealership at the time of my test drive, such a few number of people ordered a manual 997, and even less the 991 that they had no immediate plans to keep one in stock. Scary.

My other Porsche dealership told me that the clientele isn't what it used to be, and people no longer buy Porsches mainly for the sports car factor, but more for the "wow" factor.

They are just giving their clients what they want. I can't blame them, but I'm not happy about it either.
A lot of people pick it up PDK (like some of my friends) because their wives can't drive stick and they cant justify the purchase to them, so PDK it is.
__________________
Comet is offline   Lebanon
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
porsche, volkswagen

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST